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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 4773703" data-attributes="member: 3887">Yes. Good example, too. There are places where 4e certainly does resemble effects-based systems like HERO or Mutants and Masterminds. I can see why some people don't like them, but I love them, mainly because I get a lot of pleasure inventing my own 'fluff' to accompany the stated game mechanics. I'm not sold on the idea that this kind of design is so out of place in D&amp;D. I never thought D&amp;D 'started with an imagined world'. I'd say it started with things that were very obviously game rules, ones which prioritized speed and ease-of-play over any kind of accurate simulation, with a fictional world hung over them awkwardly in most places, like a drop cloth over bulky furniture. The imagined world shared by the players/DM arose mostly from their mutual agreement, not from the rule's algorithms (Really, algorithms? They were algorithms?).There was always an inherent degree of tension between the rules and the 'world' created in play. Elements of 4e design put (several) new spins on this, but they're all of a familiar kind.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 4773703, member: 3887"] Yes. Good example, too. There are places where 4e certainly does resemble effects-based systems like HERO or Mutants and Masterminds. I can see why some people don't like them, but I [i]love[/i] them, mainly because I get a lot of pleasure inventing my own 'fluff' to accompany the stated game mechanics. I'm not sold on the idea that this kind of design is so out of place in D&D. I never thought D&D 'started with an imagined world'. I'd say it started with things that were very obviously game rules, ones which prioritized speed and ease-of-play over any kind of accurate simulation, with a fictional world hung over them awkwardly in most places, like a drop cloth over bulky furniture. The imagined world shared by the players/DM arose mostly from their mutual agreement, not from the rule's algorithms (Really, algorithms? They were algorithms?). There was always an inherent degree of tension between the rules and the 'world' created in play. Elements of 4e design put (several) new spins on this, but they're all of a familiar kind. [/QUOTE]

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