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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 4773808" data-attributes="member: 55966">A roleplaying game is all about telling a collaborative story.  Whether the mechanics have the design goal of simulating realistic events, or providing a framework for a narrative, it is primarily about telling a collaborative story.  That's what makes it a roleplaying game rather than strictly a wargame or some other type of game.You're just trying to have your cake every which way Exploder.  You complain that people have too many superhuman powers in 4e rather than plain mundane powers, but have you actually read 1e - 3e adventures?  You are killing Zuggutmoy the demon lord at 8th level in the Temple of Elemental Evil.  You are knocking down giants left and right in the G-series.  You fight dinosaur sized dragons with 4 foot long peice of metal as part of the very name of the game.  However, there isn't a power that says "leaping strike" or "thunderous blow", so that's all reasonable.  Nevermind that the fighter would have to be doing something superhuman to take on a creature that is 10x his size in melee combat, it is the fact that it is explicit that makes it a problem.  Then you want to tell me that the game didn't start out as a storytelling game, but then you want to tell me that 4e in other threads (and probably this one too if we go back far enough) that 4e is too much about combat and powers and doesn't have enough storytelling.  You're always contradicting yourself, because you want to claim that certain elements of 4e aren't part of D&D, but D&D has always had them.  The game has always been about superhuman heroics, powerful monsters, common magic, dungeon crawling, and high fantasy.  That's what it is, and that's what it has always been.Okay, but you should really tone down the fantastic elements if you want the world to be consistent.  A mundane world can only survive with dragons, giants, trolls, and demons hanging around in dungeons if those things are separated from the world somehow.  D20 Modern's concept of shadow perhaps, where supernatural things are kept secret from the world at large.But people using actual magic?  Creatures that are almost invincible unless slain by demigod adventurers (cause let's face it, that's what a giant slayer is)?  Fireballs which slay entire legions of troops?  How can that world be possibly mundane?  The story simply makes no sense unless you assume that the world itself and the heroes in it are fantastical.   The only reason one could possibly think otherwise would be to swallow a huge amount of suspension of disbelief or even worse, assume its reasonable because you absorbed it at a time when you were too young to really question it.So 4e went a little more fantastic and mythological for its cosmology, and ditched the mundane "simulation" parts which didn't make sense with the larger story.  I could see someone wanting a world where the fireballs aren't blazing, and giants don't roam the world, but a gritty sword and sorcery type setting where glimpses of fantastic elements intruded into the world... but that isn't any edition of D&D.</blockquote>

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