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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 8456396" data-attributes="member: 82504">What level are some characters (who chose for that) flying under their own power aka via spells? It happens in 4e around mid paragon like 16 which is when flying mounts are du jour.  This would be analogous to level 13 in 5e.  A Fly spell is around at 5th level in 5e? The D&D genre involves huge amounts of potential advancement 2e sort of gave lip service very pretty lip service, however casters are often the only place it panned out, stalling non-casters put them effectively in different stories than one another. My level 9 Ad&D fighter felt like a sidekick and the rogue useless(in 1e). And under the right DM were he dripping with magic items this may not have been the case but that is not the experience I had and with magic items being as DM dependent and unreliable in 5e or 1e D&D well.</blockquote>