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Message: <blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8354178" data-attributes="member: 86653">Spinning off from the How is 5E like 2E thread.That's like three things. 1) At-will powers = cantrips, etc. 2) At-will powers (cantrips) automatically leveling. 3) Builds in 4E become subclasses in 5E. The rest that I listed are either changes or things that were present before 4E. But yeah, hit dice healing vs healing surges. 3E to-hit bonus math for full combatants, half combatants, and non-combatants. The just dropped that math into various classes. That was eliminated in 4E for standardized math. But it makes a bit of a return in 5E with not everyone guaranteed to get ability mods added to their attacks. It's not as wild a difference as 3E, but it's not the same as 4E where the baseline was the same progression and the same access to ability mod, the math actually counted on it. I know 1E and 2E has weird daily healing, like 3 hp/day of full rest or whatever. Did 3E keep that or switch it out?Some of these are spot on, others are ignoring prior editions and what they did or stretching definitions to the breaking point.The skills as presented in 5E (and 4E) all have their own "subsystems" to define what they can do. They're all based on a d20 roll and you need to check the description of the NWP/skill to know what it does. That's not a 4E innovation.Which is basically 2E's approach to weapon proficiencies, i.e. not proficient, proficient, and specialized. Again, that's not new or unique to 4E. NWPs could be specialized in even further, dropping more slots to gain more bonuses to the roll. More akin to 3E's skill points.Which is a rework of 3E's skill system, which is a rework of 2E's skill system (wp & nwp).Sure.Wasn't that present in 3E as well?THAC0 was an intermediary step between your modifiers and AC. It wasn't anywhere nearly as complicated as people make it out to be.But they still do. Casters generally don't get ability mod to their attacks or damage but, as you say, armed combatants do...but again, casters mostly suck at that as their STR and/or DEX aren't going to be good, as a rule.That wasn't a thing in 3E either, right? So it's not new to 4E.Rolling a d20, adding modifiers, and trying to roll high enough to hit a certain number is the basic d20 engine. It's not unique to 4E. It was there from the beginning, just slightly hidden under a few layers of cruft.Maybe you've house rules that, but it's not the default. You get max at 1st level and you roll after that. 4E there were no rolls, you always just got your hp.There's three healing spells that are bonus actions in 5E...out of 26 listed with the healing tag in D&DBeyond.That's adding in a lot of caveats to exclude all previous examples of a similar mechanic in the game. 2E has class groups (warrior) that contain three classes (fighter, paladin, ranger). These roughly correspond to classes and subclasses in 5E. Sure, 4E has a similar concept in its classes and builds. But it wasn't a 4E innovation.You assert that's the case. You're twisting your examples to show it's true.I'm not familiar with 3E fluff. At a guess WotC introduced that fluff there.Yes, monks were in 2E. They were also in 1E and Basic.Again, that's not unique to 4E and you're defining things to fit your assumed conclusion rather than looking at the whole. In every edition of D&D non-thieves could climb walls. Thieves were just better at it. Non-thieves could try to hide, thieves were just better at it.In visual presentation, yes. But not in actual mechanics. They are very reminiscent of earlier editions in the mechanics, hit points, AC, and special abilities...but nothing really interesting or tactical. No much synergized.Except all the monsters with special abilities in every other edition of the game.Except they're not. Not even close. A typical standard monster from 4E took about 4 hits from an on-level party before going down. A balanced encounter was an equal number of monsters to PCs (but you could swap out for elites, solos, minions, skill challenges, terrain, traps, etc). So a typical fight would take about n x 4 hits, where n equals the party size. Assumed party size of five. In 5E, the standard is one undertuned solo monster against a party of four. It generally takes about four hits to take out a monster in 5E. So a typical fight takes about...four hits. You're talking about the difference between about 20 hits to end a fight vs 4. That's a huge difference.The word ritual is used, but they're drastically different between the editions. In 4E, rituals were all non-combat magic. In 5E, rituals are...anything the design team things should be a ritual, with no real rhyme or reason. Some things that are non-combat spells aren't rituals, some things that are combat spells are rituals.</blockquote>

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