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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8354385" data-attributes="member: 22779">I've long been a proponent that the primary difference between 4e and 5e is verbiage.&nbsp; So much of it is simply how things are presented, rather than substantive differences.&nbsp; Skills from 4e to 5e are effectively the same - the treadmill is replaced by bounded accuracy but, at the end of the day, the proficient character attempting level appropriate actions (which, yes, does vary by level in 5e - you rarely see DC's in the 20's at 1st level, but, look at 15th level adventures and suddenly they're all over the place) you wind up with (roughly) a 66% chance of success.&nbsp; This can be varied by things like feats and whatnot.&nbsp; But, by and large, that's what's going to happen and non-proficient characters are still able to do most actions, barring extremely difficult ones, routinely, just like in 4e.&nbsp; This is VERY different from 2e skills where you either were proficient (in which case you could do something) or you weren't (in which case, most of the time, you can't even try to do it).&nbsp; It's also quite different from 3e where, because of the leveling nature of skills, untrained might as well be a &quot;no you can't even try&quot; after a few levels.&nbsp; The class structure might be a bit looser than 4e, but, not that much.&nbsp; Instead of a single chasis (which got altered in later supplements), you basically have 3 - non-caster, half caster and caster.&nbsp; Still completely different from 2e where there was no standardization at all between classes.&nbsp; Some classes got bennies at different levels, and some got none at all.&nbsp; It always baffles me that people look at 4e and 5e and don't see the similarities.&nbsp; But, then, I always base it on the character sheet test.&nbsp; Put two editions character sheets side by side and see how many commonalities there are.&nbsp; Could someone who played 2e pick up a 3e character sheet and even begin to read it?&nbsp; Without knowing the 3e system, I wouldn't even suspect they were for the same game.&nbsp; Never minding a 5e character sheet which might as well be in Greek for all a 2e player would understand it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8354385, member: 22779"] I've long been a proponent that the primary difference between 4e and 5e is verbiage. So much of it is simply how things are presented, rather than substantive differences. Skills from 4e to 5e are effectively the same - the treadmill is replaced by bounded accuracy but, at the end of the day, the proficient character attempting level appropriate actions (which, yes, does vary by level in 5e - you rarely see DC's in the 20's at 1st level, but, look at 15th level adventures and suddenly they're all over the place) you wind up with (roughly) a 66% chance of success. This can be varied by things like feats and whatnot. But, by and large, that's what's going to happen and non-proficient characters are still able to do most actions, barring extremely difficult ones, routinely, just like in 4e. This is VERY different from 2e skills where you either were proficient (in which case you could do something) or you weren't (in which case, most of the time, you can't even try to do it). It's also quite different from 3e where, because of the leveling nature of skills, untrained might as well be a "no you can't even try" after a few levels. The class structure might be a bit looser than 4e, but, not that much. Instead of a single chasis (which got altered in later supplements), you basically have 3 - non-caster, half caster and caster. Still completely different from 2e where there was no standardization at all between classes. Some classes got bennies at different levels, and some got none at all. It always baffles me that people look at 4e and 5e and don't see the similarities. But, then, I always base it on the character sheet test. Put two editions character sheets side by side and see how many commonalities there are. Could someone who played 2e pick up a 3e character sheet and even begin to read it? Without knowing the 3e system, I wouldn't even suspect they were for the same game. Never minding a 5e character sheet which might as well be in Greek for all a 2e player would understand it. [/QUOTE]

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