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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8363940" data-attributes="member: 16814">I'm not clear as to your point here -- neither system is attempting to model this, except by the fact that proficiency is on or off.&nbsp; In 4e, the top guy gets better at his ability at the same rate as the bottom guy -- +1 per 2 levels.Sure.&nbsp; But, that 4e character faces a constant treadmill of increasing DCs, so their actual chance of success is the same as the 5e character, who doesn't just add numbers to their sheet to keep up with the rising DCs.&nbsp; A 4e character, your wizard, at 1st level, with a 0 stat and no proficiency in athletics, faces a DC 8 for an easy athletics challenge.&nbsp; That's a 65% chance of success!&nbsp; The same 5e wizard faces a DC 10, for a 55% chance of success.&nbsp; Now zoom to 20th.&nbsp; No build resources are put into either.&nbsp; The 4e wizard has picked up +10 for half level, the 5e character has not improved.&nbsp; They both now face an easy task.&nbsp; The 4e character's DC is 18, meaning they have a 65% chance of success.&nbsp; The 5e character's DC is 10, which has a 55% chance of success.&nbsp; Wait, neither actually improved!But, let's look at a medium DC.&nbsp; At 1st, the 4e character faces a DC 12, for a 45% chance of success, and the 5e character faces a 15, for a 30% chance of success.&nbsp; At 20th, the 4e character faces a DC 25, and has a 30% chance of success.&nbsp; The 5e character faces a DC 15, for the same 30% chance of success.&nbsp; Huh.&nbsp; 4e lost a step.Now, hard.&nbsp; DC 19 vs 20 at 1st, so a 5% difference with advantage to 4e.&nbsp; At 20th, the 5e character still only has a 5% chance of success, but the 4e character cannot succeed at all with a +10 vs a DC of 34.This is the straight skill system.&nbsp; It's not like 4e characters actually improve at the things that they are actually doing.&nbsp; Sure, they improve against things they're not doing anymore, but, they're not doing those things.&nbsp;&nbsp; In play, the difference is not present, it's only in some white room conception where level 20 characters are doing level 1 stuff.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8363940, member: 16814"] I'm not clear as to your point here -- neither system is attempting to model this, except by the fact that proficiency is on or off. In 4e, the top guy gets better at his ability at the same rate as the bottom guy -- +1 per 2 levels. Sure. But, that 4e character faces a constant treadmill of increasing DCs, so their actual chance of success is the same as the 5e character, who doesn't just add numbers to their sheet to keep up with the rising DCs. A 4e character, your wizard, at 1st level, with a 0 stat and no proficiency in athletics, faces a DC 8 for an easy athletics challenge. That's a 65% chance of success! The same 5e wizard faces a DC 10, for a 55% chance of success. Now zoom to 20th. No build resources are put into either. The 4e wizard has picked up +10 for half level, the 5e character has not improved. They both now face an easy task. The 4e character's DC is 18, meaning they have a 65% chance of success. The 5e character's DC is 10, which has a 55% chance of success. Wait, neither actually improved! But, let's look at a medium DC. At 1st, the 4e character faces a DC 12, for a 45% chance of success, and the 5e character faces a 15, for a 30% chance of success. At 20th, the 4e character faces a DC 25, and has a 30% chance of success. The 5e character faces a DC 15, for the same 30% chance of success. Huh. 4e lost a step. Now, hard. DC 19 vs 20 at 1st, so a 5% difference with advantage to 4e. At 20th, the 5e character still only has a 5% chance of success, but the 4e character cannot succeed at all with a +10 vs a DC of 34. This is the straight skill system. It's not like 4e characters actually improve [I]at the things that they are actually doing[/I]. Sure, they improve against things they're not doing anymore, but, [I]they're not doing those things[/I]. In play, the difference is not present, it's only in some white room conception where level 20 characters are doing level 1 stuff. [/QUOTE]

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