Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8365087" data-attributes="member: 16814">I'd not categorize getting tagged by a gelatinous cube at 10th level as "hilarity ensues."  I don't follow that this is any more hilarity than if it happened in 4e.  I think that you're considering this as an isolated event, but it's likely not.  A cube used against a 10th level party is taking the place of a minion in 4e -- it's something you can't ignore but isn't the main threat.  Getting tagged and losing a round is the danger, not really the loss of hitpoints.  And that's not really hilarity, unless you're starting from the assumption that all things must be similarly deadly, and a minor inconvenience in hitpoints makes losing a round silliness.I'm confused, because this is exactly what I said my process was, only I used DC space in lieu of tier, but these end up being the same thing -- what things are hard and how should I describe them with regards to what came before and what could come after.  Same thing.  The last few sentences are describing what happens if you don't do this and just describe things without regard to the DC space/teir.  You end up with descriptions/fiction not aligning with the DCs assigned.I'm not sure we'd use the term objective DCs the same, but, yes, DCs are set based on what the established fiction is and the action the character is taking.  I think they get to the same point from different directions.  In 5e, advancing adventures take place in more dangerous places, so the danger of the world increases and this can affect DCs selected.  In 4e, tier/level sets the expected DCs, and a good GM considers this before describing the danger.  So, 5e it's danger -> DC, and 4e it's DC -> danger.  However, the end result is that the fiction should align with the DC (and here I'm mostly talking about the easy/medium/hard rankings that exist in both).  The real difference, I think, is that 5e DCs can be modified by the action taken -- how you deal with the issue can change the evaluation of the challenge.  4e doesn't really have a process that does this.Nothing at all, I agree.  The statement was more that there seems to be an expectation that there be a real challenge if the GM presents one.  If I don't, and present a mostly non-challenge, then this is my choice as the GM and I should not expect that the system will save me from doing so.  I think 4e could do this, if a GM of 4e was willing to declare the slope a challenge despite the fiction and use the higher level DCs.  It's very klugey, but if you use the system without consideration of what you actually established in the fiction, then it will save the challenge for you, but leave you with a different mess.  In my opinion, others may not care about these things.  I would.Nothing, in my opinion.  This was largely my point.</blockquote>

Verification