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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 8365108" data-attributes="member: 3424">I think that as a general rule, low-level and high-level characters have about the same chance to overcome level-appropriate challenges regardless of edition. So yes, the treadmill is still there. There are maybe three key differences that I can think of offhand.First, 5E hides the treadmill better (or alternatively, is not as clear and upfront about the treadmill - a terrorist/freedom fighter distinction) as 4E. As previously mentioned, a low-level 5E wizard has about the same chance to make the check to escape a gelatinous cube's grapple as a high-level 5E wizard. However, the high-level 5E wizard has more hit points and spells and has a higher spell save DC, and thus will have a much easier time defeating the same gelatinous cube. A high-level 4E character facing the same gelatinous cube that they faced as a low-level character simply outclasses it numerically as their hit points, defences, attack bonuses, etc. will have gone up considerably.Second, there is a difference in the fiction. In 4E, in order for the gelatinous cube to be a level-appropriate challenge, its hit points, defences, attack bonuses, etc. will need to increase in line with the PCs', but fictionally, it should not be described as a run-of-the-mill gelatinous cube. It should be a gelatinous cube infused with Juiblex's ichor, for example. You could do the same in 5E, but you could also have a run-of-the-mill gelatinous cube as part of a level-appropriate encounter featuring more such gelatinous cubes or other monsters (maybe as part of the entourage of an aspect of Juiblex).Third, magic items. 4E's underlying math assumes the PCs will get level-appropriate magic items, 5E's underlying math assumes the PCs don't have any magic items. Either way, if you don't follow the assumptions, you will have to make adjustments if you want to maintain the same level of challenge. If you don't give our magic items in 4E and don't make any adjustments, challenges become relatively tougher as you reach higher levels. If you do give out magic items in 5E and don't make any adjustments, challenges become relatively easier as you reach higher levels.As seems to be obligatory for me in this thread, here are my "how to run 5E like 4E" suggestion for this post:1. Class Skills: The skills that a character can choose to be proficient in by virtue of their class are considered class skills. From 2nd level, characters can add half their proficiency bonus when making ability checks with class skills that they are not already proficient in. This is essentially the bard's Jack of All Trades ability, but generalized to all classes.2. Breadth of Knowledge: At 5th, 11th, and 17th level, you can choose to either add a skill to the list of your class skills or gain proficiency in a class skill.3. Heroic Resilience: At 5th, 11th, and 17th level, pick an ability score for which you do not have saving throw proficiency. You can add half your proficiency bonus when making saving throws using the selected ability score. If you subsequently gain proficiency in saving throws using that ability score, select another ability score for which you do not have saving throw proficiency and apply this benefit to saving throws using the new ability score instead.</blockquote>

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