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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8367324" data-attributes="member: 16814">This is for [USER=87792]@Neonchameleon[/USER] as well.I disagree with your assertion, here.&nbsp; These numbers aren't objectively determined by reference to the fiction at all.&nbsp; They're just objective numbers and don't care about the fiction.&nbsp; The fiction can be whatever it wants, and the result of this check will tell you how far you've jumped.&nbsp; And this, right here, is my major problem with all fixed DCs in 4e.&nbsp; They are terrible holdovers that damage what's otherwise a nicely put together skill system.&nbsp; Here's an example.&nbsp; You need to jump 15 feet.&nbsp; Simple, roll and check, if your check is 15+, you do so.&nbsp; Now, you need to jump 15' against the full fury of an elemental storm's winds, winds that level mountains and move oceans.&nbsp; Still simple, if your check is 15+, you jump successfully.This decoupling of the fiction is what makes these fixed DCs so bad in the conceptual space of the 4e skill system.&nbsp; You have to essentially maintain two different skill system evaluations do deal with normal, level gated DCs and also the fixed DC skill system.&nbsp; Need a jump that's a challenge, you have to prep it or pick it from one set of considerations.&nbsp; Need an intimidation challenge, use the other one!&nbsp; Fixed DC skills in 4e are the absolute worst part of the 4e skill system.&nbsp; They are unnecessary - everything they do can be handled within the leveled DC system and level appropriate challenges.&nbsp; That these are the things that are used as the only example that sticks of how you get &quot;better&quot; in the 4e skill system is, to me, extremely ironic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8367324, member: 16814"] This is for [USER=87792]@Neonchameleon[/USER] as well. I disagree with your assertion, here. These numbers aren't objectively determined by reference to the fiction at all. They're just objective numbers and don't care about the fiction. The fiction can be whatever it wants, and the result of this check will tell you how far you've jumped. And this, right here, is my major problem with all fixed DCs in 4e. They are terrible holdovers that damage what's otherwise a nicely put together skill system. Here's an example. You need to jump 15 feet. Simple, roll and check, if your check is 15+, you do so. Now, you need to jump 15' against the full fury of an elemental storm's winds, winds that level mountains and move oceans. Still simple, if your check is 15+, you jump successfully. This decoupling of the fiction is what makes these fixed DCs so bad in the conceptual space of the 4e skill system. You have to essentially maintain two different skill system evaluations do deal with normal, level gated DCs and also the fixed DC skill system. Need a jump that's a challenge, you have to prep it or pick it from one set of considerations. Need an intimidation challenge, use the other one! Fixed DC skills in 4e are the absolute worst part of the 4e skill system. They are unnecessary - everything they do can be handled within the leveled DC system and level appropriate challenges. That these are the things that are used as the only example that sticks of how you get "better" in the 4e skill system is, to me, extremely ironic. [/QUOTE]

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