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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8367365" data-attributes="member: 82106">I don't think I have any really great dispute with what you are saying as a representation of most PRACTICE of 4e. That is, I'm going to have that level 12 bugbear, and he's going to have some swirly ninja-like fluff maybe to his moves. Mechanically he's just a bugbear jacked to level 12, and I used that particular level to depict him because it was convenient to do so, and not through some deep analysis of what kind of challenge Bugbearjutsu should be (and how would I know anyway, its all fantasy, there's nothing to go on). Likewise adamantium doesn't exist and cannot be objectively rated for hardness, it is just a word that evokes an idea. So, we describe the black clad super bugbear leaping out of the darkness with a great KIYIEEEHHH! and thwacking the fighter up side the head with a roundhouse kick. Ouch, you just took 4d8+12 damage from that surprise kick! Yup, a bugbear seems to have rather easily hit you, even though you are a mighty Paragon Arena Master! OTOH, I would fully expect that that specific bugbear will be a super badass regardless of what party he goes against. I might change his numbers up to make him a Solo of level 4 if he's kicking the arse of a level 1 party, but his fiction, and whatever mechanics are selected to represent it, will be pretty consistent and have a fictional basis. Admittedly, stock Standard monsters are not exactly something you need spend vast amounts of time describing and justifying. It may well be that said bugbear gets exactly 2 minutes in play and nobody gives a fig why he's level 12, unless it has some profound plot relevance. I still don't feel like FUNDAMENTALLY the DCs are subjective though. I just think they are not really the focus of play. Having played 4e and 5e, I must say, there seems to be a lot more focus on this sort of justification, and on the minutia of what exactly justifies every DC in 5e. It can get rather tedious IME. You have all this mechanics, but it doesn't actually DELIVER ANYTHING, because the GM can simply call for another check or describe what happens next as something trivial, regardless of what I invested in success.</blockquote>

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