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Message: <blockquote data-quote="apsuman" data-source="post: 1702739" data-attributes="member: 1769">Your points are well taken, I ran out of time before I could give other examples of where I think the monk class does well.  But on the disarm situation, I chose to compare them to a fighter for two reasons, Fighters have the best BAB and highest STR in the game.  Now, I like fighters with a shield, so there is my bias coming out but the disarm would work even better against every other class.  Disarm the wand from the wizard.  Disarm the holy symbol from the cleric.  Disarm the banjo from the bard.And as for the two handed locked gauntlet improved disarm fighters out there, you TRIP them.If the monk has improved trip, it is monk STR MOD +4 vs. the MAX(FTR STR mod, FTR DEX mod).  The +4 from the feat makes the Monk have the equivalent of a +8 to STR.  So the 12@ STR Monk vs. the 18 STR Fighter would succeed 50% of the time.  That sucks but it would be easier to trip wizards, clerics, druids, bards, etc.Eveyone is familiar with the monk spring attack so I won't go into it here except to mention it in this sentence.Stunning fist is also good against the right kind of foes.  The DC is 10 + 1/2 monk level + wis mod.  I think a level 10 monk would have a 10 +5 +3 or 18 vs. a Cleric or other high FORT save person of same level +7 +3 (from CON) for a save of +10.  So those types lose the save only 35% of the time.  Versus a level 10 wizard or rogue, with +3 +3 (from CON) for +6, they would succeed only 45% of the time.Why am I going into all of this?  Because I ramble.  But also to point out all these really neat things a monk could do from feats gained only from the class itself that have the following in common:  All of these feats (trip, disarm, stuning fist) have a less than 100% chance of success (esp. depending upon your foe) but if successful they put your opponent in a tactically weak position.  Where does this come into play?  AOOs.  That's right, the monk is the king of the Attack of Opportunity.  If the fighter provokes an AOO, why not take that opportunity to (attempt to) disarm him, or trip him, or stun him?  Quick draw is a counter to the disarm, although it probably puts a less effective weapon in hand, but QD is not taken often (at least not in my bunch).  Drawing a new weapon, getting up from prone, fighting while prone, or being stunned are all not good conditions to be in on your next initiative.</blockquote>

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