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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Question" data-source="post: 3047631" data-attributes="member: 40104">No con score is a disadvantage remember? A disadvantage that only gets higher and higher as your level goes up. 5d12 hp vs 5d10+20 for a 5th level human fighter, 16 con, and improved toughness. You also get worse fort saves.Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4This is good, but the placement limits its usefulness somewhat. It seems fighter types benefit most from the stats. Needless to say caster classes are out of the question.Vampires have a +8 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks.Lets see they have LA +8 and a +8 racial mod. What does this mean? It means that a human of the same ECL with, say, levels in the rogue class will have the same mods. On the other hand this IS useful if the vampire is a non-rogue type, but not much.....CC skills and a +8 racial mod can only get you so far. In a party the rogue is still likely to be the guy doing the bluffing, sneaking, so on and so forth. This is really only useful as a mediocre "second chance".....the rogue failed his spot save and now its up to the vampire to see if he can spot the ambush.Vampires gain Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Lightning Reflexes, Alertness, dodge and lighting reflexes are sub-par feats. Combat reflexes is useless if you cannot hit the target anyway. Improved initiative is the only useful one.a ECL 13 vampire has 2 normal feats(Assuming non-human), 1 good bonus feat, 1 useless feat and 3 sub-par feats.A ECL 13 non-human PC has 5 normal feats, all of which are either useful or required for entry into a PRC/feat.Cold and Electrical Resistance 10Decent, but not much to write home about......ECL 13 tends can throw magic in the form of 60+ in one straight go, and the cleric/wizard should have protection from X spells at the ready.DR 10 silver AND magicNot bad, but its not going to do much to stop you from getting one hit.....and is anyone missing the idea that vampire hunters, a very likely foe the DM will use against any PC vampire, WILL have silver and magic weapons?Fast Healing 5.1 hit, gaseous form, coffin time. Spider climb.What are you going to do with this? Climb a tall building in a city and throw rotten tomatoes at the crowd below?Sithobi : The best 3rd level damage spell, as its the wiz 5 vamprie PC vs an encounter(as far as i can tell, this was what the poster meant).A 13th level human bard is better than the 5th level vampire bard at support(Better songs, better spells), can actually hit someone with a bow. Not only that but the human bard will not get one hit KOed, can be active in both the day and night, does not need a coffin, does not have issues with crossing running water, so on and so forth.</blockquote>

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