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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khur" data-source="post: 1307017" data-attributes="member: 5583">Interesting that you choose to respond even though "you could care less", but I'm glad you did. Zip ties are a brilliant solution, and one I had considered. They weren't entirely relevant to the argument above, because we were really talking about whether you should be able to bind someone "at will" when they're dazed. Zip ties don't provide a gag, either.Just as asides, WotC wouldn't have had to change anything to use the Wound Point system. It was already developed for Star Wars. Secondly, if there are a lot of threads complaining about these issues, that is at least some evidence that there are problems with the system. Whether these are problems in perception is really irrelevant.If the burst rules seem spot on to you, why? Do you have some relevant experience in real world burst fire? If so, the information you have to share is very valuable. If not, your assessment is just speculation. A friend of mine wrote an article for d20 Magazine Rack in which he, not being a military man himself, interviewed some infantrymen on the subject of burst fire.Long story short, the infantry men said that burst fire is mainly a way to lower ammo consumption on the battlefield, while keeping a lot of lead in the air (suppression fire). The training is relatively simple, and virtually everyone who gets it can master it (no Wis 13+ for the Burst Fire feat, at the very least). Mechanical governance on weapons (3-round or 5-round burst setting) is to prevent the average soldier from firing about 6 shots with a controlled, full-auto burst. On burst fire (3-round), the first shot is usually quite accurate, the second shot will hit a target at a reasonable range, and at short range (say, one increment) the whole burst will hit. The second and third bullet, when they do hit, do full damage to the target. Even Charles Ryan, who wrote Bullet Points on WotC's site to support the design of the d20 Modern system, seems to agree with this because he says (emphasis mine), "...after the first couple of bullets have left the weapon, the others invariably fly wide and wild".  Of course, if the bullet misses, it has flown "wide" of its target—what he means by wild is another question.Now if you want to simulate the A-Team, all the gunplay rules are fine. If you want more realistic action, you may have a hard time with Modern. While this is fine for the veteran GM, who can modify the rules and do so well, the novice is left without any tools to adjust the danger level.A simple system would put recoil penalties (a fixed figure, possibly different for each gun) on shots after the first. Using one attack roll, one could determine any number of hits. Feats could mitigate such penalties. Then the poor fool hit by multiple rounds takes full damage from all of them. A hail of bullets is not at all like a fireball, it's more like a swarm of magic missiles. Thus, it's arguable that a dragon that totally occupies a square filled with autofire should take damage from all 10 rounds. (It's also arguable, though less so, that a creature who takes up more than one square should take more damage from a fireball, but I digress.)What the rules for both nonlethal damage and guns in d20 Modern really provide is tight control of "fight-ending" mechanics. The designers didn't want powerful characters (especially PCs) going down in one attack. Thus, they leveled gun damage, put restrictive, unrealistic, and un-cinematic restraint on gunplay, and did the same to nonlethal damage.</blockquote>

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