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How is Old School not at least related to nostalgia?
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<blockquote data-quote="grodog" data-source="post: 4898429" data-attributes="member: 1613"><p>I think that nostalgia does in fact imply a certain level of denigration, but not necessarily about the subject matter, but instead about the person who is being nostalgic. Definitions follow, with some emphasis added by me in each:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Similarly, from <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nostalgia" target="_blank">MW</a>:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>while <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nostalgia" target="_blank">this definition</a> seems less biased in comparison to the previous two, so not all dictionaries define nostalgia with left-handed compliments:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In the first two cases, there's an implied judgment against the person who is being nostalgic: "severe longing" and "excessively" sentimental yearning vs. simple wistfulness. These suggest that the yearner is out of control, and has lost perspective; that they have moved across some line, and have gone too far in their adoration/yearning/whatever for the object of the nostalgia. The "bittersweet yearning" for something that's "irrecoverable"---to combine two definitions a bit---suggests an an irrational yearning that can't possibly be fulfilled; this implies a certain willful ignorance of the hard facts of reality, as well as a sense of loss via bittersweet. </p><p></p><p>So, basically someone who's called nostalgic is, to some degree, being labelled as someone who's out of touch and who has an irrational attachment to a faded past. There's a sense that they can't let go and just move on with life, despite it being plain to the rest of those around them that there's really no point in clinging to the (less-valued) past. </p><p></p><p>That's an extrapolation taken one step further, of course, but I think it's reasonable. It also helps to highlight the easy shift in the value judgments that are being made within the term, as they move from hints and subtle criticisms into stronger negative judgments once those assumptions are taken as givens and the nostalgic person is looked at through the now-subtly-criticized lens (vs. the simply "wistful" lens). </p><p></p><p>From a gaming POV, I think that there's resistance to the terminology because many folks have either a) never given up playing their edition of choice/game of choice/world of choice/etc., therefore there's nothing to be "wistful" about in the first place, much less having a "severe longing" for it, or b) they never played the original edition/game/etc. back in the day (or weren't even born then) when it was first released/most popular/won an ENnie/was mentioned in passing in blockbuster movies, so they object to the focus of "the past" in the term, since in many cases those folks aren't particularly looking "backward" but have come to the game/world/etc. fresh. </p><p></p><p>From a gaming marketing POV, being regarded as a nostalgic product is also a subtle criticism, since if you're playing an earlier edition, you are---by definition---not using the most-current system: i.e., a lower number that's numerically smaller, and implies less refinement, fewer improvements, etc. Again, pushing the term a bit, but I think the shoe fits, in particular in light of the denigration expressed toward 3.x in 4e's early marketing messages.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Working through the language, recapturing the past is only necessary if you've somehow <em>lost </em>it in the first place, which I think many grognards would say they haven't (and "new" grognards would say they haven't either, since they're fresh adoptees of the older systems). Regaining lost childhood wonder is rather Romantic, but it too is a subtle slam: this object of nostalgia is child-like: immature, and not fully grown. Having a sense of wonder is great, but it can also be read as naive, wide-eyed-and-innocent, and not in touch with the hard ways of the real world. </p><p></p><p>So, the terms we use are laden with primary and secondary and tertiary meanings, that carry obvious and subtle connotations beyond their "official" meanings. I think that's why a lot of people react strongly to the use of the term <em>nostalgia</em>, in both a positive and negative manner. (And yes, I am trained as a literary critic, in case that's not clear by now <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> ).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="grodog, post: 4898429, member: 1613"] I think that nostalgia does in fact imply a certain level of denigration, but not necessarily about the subject matter, but instead about the person who is being nostalgic. Definitions follow, with some emphasis added by me in each: Similarly, from [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nostalgia"]MW[/URL]: while [URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nostalgia"]this definition[/URL] seems less biased in comparison to the previous two, so not all dictionaries define nostalgia with left-handed compliments: In the first two cases, there's an implied judgment against the person who is being nostalgic: "severe longing" and "excessively" sentimental yearning vs. simple wistfulness. These suggest that the yearner is out of control, and has lost perspective; that they have moved across some line, and have gone too far in their adoration/yearning/whatever for the object of the nostalgia. The "bittersweet yearning" for something that's "irrecoverable"---to combine two definitions a bit---suggests an an irrational yearning that can't possibly be fulfilled; this implies a certain willful ignorance of the hard facts of reality, as well as a sense of loss via bittersweet. So, basically someone who's called nostalgic is, to some degree, being labelled as someone who's out of touch and who has an irrational attachment to a faded past. There's a sense that they can't let go and just move on with life, despite it being plain to the rest of those around them that there's really no point in clinging to the (less-valued) past. That's an extrapolation taken one step further, of course, but I think it's reasonable. It also helps to highlight the easy shift in the value judgments that are being made within the term, as they move from hints and subtle criticisms into stronger negative judgments once those assumptions are taken as givens and the nostalgic person is looked at through the now-subtly-criticized lens (vs. the simply "wistful" lens). From a gaming POV, I think that there's resistance to the terminology because many folks have either a) never given up playing their edition of choice/game of choice/world of choice/etc., therefore there's nothing to be "wistful" about in the first place, much less having a "severe longing" for it, or b) they never played the original edition/game/etc. back in the day (or weren't even born then) when it was first released/most popular/won an ENnie/was mentioned in passing in blockbuster movies, so they object to the focus of "the past" in the term, since in many cases those folks aren't particularly looking "backward" but have come to the game/world/etc. fresh. From a gaming marketing POV, being regarded as a nostalgic product is also a subtle criticism, since if you're playing an earlier edition, you are---by definition---not using the most-current system: i.e., a lower number that's numerically smaller, and implies less refinement, fewer improvements, etc. Again, pushing the term a bit, but I think the shoe fits, in particular in light of the denigration expressed toward 3.x in 4e's early marketing messages. Working through the language, recapturing the past is only necessary if you've somehow [I]lost [/I]it in the first place, which I think many grognards would say they haven't (and "new" grognards would say they haven't either, since they're fresh adoptees of the older systems). Regaining lost childhood wonder is rather Romantic, but it too is a subtle slam: this object of nostalgia is child-like: immature, and not fully grown. Having a sense of wonder is great, but it can also be read as naive, wide-eyed-and-innocent, and not in touch with the hard ways of the real world. So, the terms we use are laden with primary and secondary and tertiary meanings, that carry obvious and subtle connotations beyond their "official" meanings. I think that's why a lot of people react strongly to the use of the term [I]nostalgia[/I], in both a positive and negative manner. (And yes, I am trained as a literary critic, in case that's not clear by now :D ). [/QUOTE]
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How is Old School not at least related to nostalgia?
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