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How is PF2E prep and GMing?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8005527" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Well, no, I wouldn't just brush it under the rug with "this isn't something games teach in general".</p><p></p><p>Pathfinder 2 is expressly taking the no-attrition model for granted, as if it was the only playing style its designers could even dream of. It does not discuss this with the GM, it offers no variants, and no help in rejigging the game to meet other playing styles. The GMG sidebar on sandboxes, for instance, mostly states basic facts such as "you can triple the number of encounters, since PCs likely won't find them all". Not a single word on how sandbox play is associated with attrition.</p><p></p><p></p><p>PF2 reads as if attrition-based play doesn't exist and never existed in D&D gaming.</p><p></p><p>If you have more questions, feel free to ask.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You say you're confused - but then proceed to post a decidedly unconfused message.</p><p></p><p>However, you're conflating time pressure in general with the day-based recovery model inherent in all of D&D.</p><p></p><p>Yes, PF2 does "attrition" since casters run out of spells and you need to sleep at night.</p><p></p><p>But that's not what we're discussing.</p><p></p><p>And time pressure; yes, it works, but nearly everyone suggesting it conveniently forgets that it works best if used sparingly!</p><p></p><p>That is, it would be nice if a game offered OTHER ways to enforce attrition than merely time-pressure each time.</p><p></p><p>And besides, since hp is essentially NOT included in the attrition restrictions of this particular game you can still do things that might surprise a GM coming from other D&D systems.</p><p></p><p>For instance: if you say the Dragon will eat the Princess in three days' time, that immediately locks down most if not all resources in a classic game where you only heal damage overnight (plus spells and potions).</p><p></p><p>But in PF2, it's entirely concievable to have an all-martial party (Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, Ranger). This party is ENTIRELY unconstrained by your time-pressure. They could fight A HUNDRED encounters in three days time.</p><p></p><p>Whether the Dragon eats the Princess in three days time or three years time becomes entirely irrelevant, since three days is more than ample time for such a party to "process" every intended encounter of the adventure.</p><p></p><p>THAT'S what we're discussing!</p><p></p><p></p><p>Just want to point out that the notion of "give in to attrition and rest because they don't have enough time left in the day to heal-up again" is somewhat deceptive.</p><p></p><p>Once a party is out of options and out of time it is sometimes too late to decide to rest. Instead its time to fight for your lives and possibly die.</p><p></p><p>That is: the reason you don't know you don't have enough time is because you get unexpectedly ambushed. You can't take that into account.</p><p></p><p>In my experience, in PF2, after (nearly) every fight the heroes will take 20-60 minutes downtime to heal up completely. If you the GM continuously throw level-appropriate wandering monsters against them, you will not make them retreat, you will kill them.</p><p></p><p>What it all boils down to is this: PF2 is like if 5th Edition gave you back all your hit points on a short rest. Every short rest, all day long.</p><p></p><p>This is a profound difference, and it severely messes with attrition-based play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8005527, member: 12731"] Well, no, I wouldn't just brush it under the rug with "this isn't something games teach in general". Pathfinder 2 is expressly taking the no-attrition model for granted, as if it was the only playing style its designers could even dream of. It does not discuss this with the GM, it offers no variants, and no help in rejigging the game to meet other playing styles. The GMG sidebar on sandboxes, for instance, mostly states basic facts such as "you can triple the number of encounters, since PCs likely won't find them all". Not a single word on how sandbox play is associated with attrition. PF2 reads as if attrition-based play doesn't exist and never existed in D&D gaming. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. You say you're confused - but then proceed to post a decidedly unconfused message. However, you're conflating time pressure in general with the day-based recovery model inherent in all of D&D. Yes, PF2 does "attrition" since casters run out of spells and you need to sleep at night. But that's not what we're discussing. And time pressure; yes, it works, but nearly everyone suggesting it conveniently forgets that it works best if used sparingly! That is, it would be nice if a game offered OTHER ways to enforce attrition than merely time-pressure each time. And besides, since hp is essentially NOT included in the attrition restrictions of this particular game you can still do things that might surprise a GM coming from other D&D systems. For instance: if you say the Dragon will eat the Princess in three days' time, that immediately locks down most if not all resources in a classic game where you only heal damage overnight (plus spells and potions). But in PF2, it's entirely concievable to have an all-martial party (Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, Ranger). This party is ENTIRELY unconstrained by your time-pressure. They could fight A HUNDRED encounters in three days time. Whether the Dragon eats the Princess in three days time or three years time becomes entirely irrelevant, since three days is more than ample time for such a party to "process" every intended encounter of the adventure. THAT'S what we're discussing! Just want to point out that the notion of "give in to attrition and rest because they don't have enough time left in the day to heal-up again" is somewhat deceptive. Once a party is out of options and out of time it is sometimes too late to decide to rest. Instead its time to fight for your lives and possibly die. That is: the reason you don't know you don't have enough time is because you get unexpectedly ambushed. You can't take that into account. In my experience, in PF2, after (nearly) every fight the heroes will take 20-60 minutes downtime to heal up completely. If you the GM continuously throw level-appropriate wandering monsters against them, you will not make them retreat, you will kill them. What it all boils down to is this: PF2 is like if 5th Edition gave you back all your hit points on a short rest. Every short rest, all day long. This is a profound difference, and it severely messes with attrition-based play. [/QUOTE]
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