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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 2398330" data-attributes="member: 23619">In a toe-to-toe fight, a 1st ed 18th Fighter is probably as dangerous or more dangerous than 3.5. Most 1st ed characters at those levels had crazy magic items if not artifacts in their possession and were not limited to cash or items based on their levels. Remember, 1st Ed also had better gear too. If that 1st ed. fighter was wearing a Girdle of Storm Giant Strength, that gave it the exact same strength as an actual Storm Giant, not a whimpy +6. That right there translates into the equivalent of a 39 Strength (+19 to hit, +19 damage). And that Sword of Sharpness was sweet too. I believe it was a 19 or 20 and whoops!, there goes an arm or a leg! No save! Vorpal? Bye bye head, again, no save! Not to mention that 1st ed fighters didn't need feats to do what Spring Attack does. And if they were hasted, their 3 attacks per round turn into 6, not just an extra action on a full attack! If that sword was a +5 Vorpal two handed sword, thats 6 attacks at +42 (18 bab, 19 str, 5 sword), at 2D6+35 damage (+19 str (X1.5 for 2 handed=+28), +5 sword, +2 specialization)! 1st ed fighter's multiple attacks were all as good as the first, they didn't get worse with each extra one. That's 12D6+175hp in one round (assuming no 1s are rolled), and assuming no crits are rolled (thus killing the 3rd ed fighter instantly), that's still enough damage to slaughter the 3rd ed fighter without even having power attack or using an artifact or even some super cool weapon like that Black Razor or Elric's sword Stormbringer or something like that. 3.5 fighter would have to be epic to get gear like that (and ruin the economy of entire countries in the process!), not so in 1st ed. And 1st ed. Rings of Regeneration actually regenerated, not like the crummy ones in 3.5, so the 1st ed fighter could keep on comingThen, there's the chance that 1st ed fighter has gone out and kicked Orcus' ass and is swinging around his wand which kills anything not as powerful as a demon prince on contact (touch attack), no save. That would make short work of the 3.5 fighter too. Of course, everything in 1st ed stacked, so that 1st ed fighter could wear a cloak +5, two +5 rings, +5 bracers (I think), and have however many Ioun Stones, so his AC could really outstrip the 3.5 fighters. His AC could easily surpass 40 and that's not even counting a Dex bonus which wouldn't be reduced by his armor. And I think a potion of speed could stack with other Haste items (I may be wrong here), so his 6 attacks turn into 12. But that's just getting silly. And that's assuming the fighter was human. If it was an elf, that 18th level 3.5 fighter could be dealing with a 1st edition, elven 18th level fighter/mage, fighter/thief or fighter/mage/thief, or a dwarf that's an 18th fighter/cleric! Heh! Even assuming level limits, I'd still take a 12th or 14th fighter/mage against an 18th fighter any day! Remember back in those days, Disintegrate actually did disintegrate stuff and Power Word Kill or Meteor Swarm was something to be afraid of! Or even a fighter/thief! 2D6+35 damage X5 from walking around to the 3.5 fighter's back and backstabbing is just icing on the cake. Now, imagine that 6 times a round! 10D6+175 (from X5 backstab damage), times 6 (for haste) is 60D6+1,050HP in 1 round (again assuming no misses or instant kills!). 1st level fighters didn't draw attacks of opportunity for doing the walk around behind and stab them in the back maneuver. Never mind the fighter/cleric (still an 18th fighter) that could lay a Harm on the 3.5 fighter and reduce him to 1-4hp instantly, or use Destruction or any other surprise. I'm sure there's plenty I'm forgetting about 1st edition since I haven't played that in so long. This is just what comes to mind. Maybe the question should be how many 3.5 18th level fighters could a 1st edition fighter take out!What about other classes too? Monks only got up to 17th, but a 17th monk could take a 3.5  18th fighter. Back then, Quivering Palm was righteous! And the assassin would have just a flat percentage chance of killing that fighter outright--no whimpy 3.5 death attack garbage--just roll the dice and the 3.5 fighter dies instantly, no save. And a Ranger would be even more of a blender since his natural 4 or 5 attacks could be hasted to 8 or 10 and still do close to the same amount of damage as a fighter.</blockquote>

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