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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aelryinth" data-source="post: 2399934" data-attributes="member: 10515">There's no 'good old days is better.'  There's ignoring the reality of the situation you are in.''obviously everything needs to be translated into 3E terms..."  Well, no.  Obviously, everything needs to be translated into 1E terms.  There, didn't that settle everything.No? For some reason I didn't think so.A 1E fighter could customize his gear.  There was Enchant an Item spell back then, remember?  It was just a lot harder...you had to actually go get the components for the stuff on a mad Quest, and you probably wouldn't level while doing it, either.AC scaled past -10 in 1E.  There were examples somewhere of a -12 AC, some god or another, I think...or a Dragon.  Can't remember.  -10 is just where the table stopped.We are calling a round a round...if one is fighting the other, they have to be on the same scale.Prices for gear are guidelines, sure.  But all the character classes are balanced by gear and abilities.  In 1E, classes were balanced by the experience costs neccessary to go up levels, and saving throws, and THACO.   Higher ability scores were common because lower ones did absolutely nothing for you...9-14 were wasted stats...and TH mods were precious, indeed.  magic items? those were accessories, and DM's fiat...but they often made or broke the character.  You should have seen how many +1 longswords our group accumulated over time.Even with your 'average array', which totally destroys a 1E fighter, you are overlooking the fact that 2 attacks and being able to move freely means the 2E fighter is attacking twice as often as the 1E, and he has double specialization at hand to even the damage gap considerably.And lastly...you didn't need special skills to wield two weapons, and they doubled your attacks!A 1E fighter double specced in short swords and wielding two of them got 5 attacks a round, every round, at highest THACO.  And applied full str bonus, too.A 1E fighter with archery is going to completely destroy a 3E fighter...they can shoot 4 arrows, then move back into cover, and stack str, bow and magic bonuses.A 1E theif would get slaughtered by a rogue.A 1E cleric would get hammered by a 3E.Paladins? 3E one gets all the goodies now...no restriction to ten magic items for them!Rangers? 1E rangers OWNED Giant-class creatures...which was basically every monster on two legs, from Goblins to titans.  Against one another? 3E...customize the FE gives the nod right there.a 1e Druid...hmm.  Wildshape is so much better now I'll have to nod to 3E...but 1E druids got elemental wildshape pretty fast as heirophants...and their best spells hit at level 12, not level 17.A 1e mage has the fight there, with scaling spells.  Unlimited level bases for magic missile and fireball, anyone?  Lots of ways spells could break the system.  Cast an Epuration and neutralize any spell of your opponents while you hammer him with 9 magic missiles per spell, or 18 dice fireballs or something...blah blah blah.Different games, different rules, bad matchups.As for D&D...that's actually a pretty good comparison stat-wise, although the lack of iteratives for non-fighters is a bad thing, and spells scale up forever.  Hit point wise, 3E has all the nods to it.===Aelryinth</blockquote>

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