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<blockquote data-quote="ParanoydStyle" data-source="post: 7622434" data-attributes="member: 6984451">I'd be surprised if someone else hasn't already pointed this out three pages into the thread, but you cannot, in fact, have both of these things. Unless I'm misunderstanding the 5E rules, which is possible. (Doesn't matter much in this case, as the error appears both on the 11th level fighters and the 1st level fighters, but I think the +2 bonus to damage from dueling requires you to have your off-hand free.)Anyway, it seems to me like the first level fighter's ability to Second Wind is a HUGE factor here. What would the numbers look like without that, out of curiosity? (i.e. assuming that the 1st level Fighters had already used their Second Wind for the day or whatever).Oh and, I realize everyone knows this, but a differently spec'd 11th level fighter might be able to kill more 1st level fighters before he goes down, like without getting into the &quot;calculation is a nightmare&quot; stuff like combat maneuvers, just things like a great big two-handed weapon fighter (I think the greatsword is mathematically the best in 5EOh, and the rule of the 11th level fighter not having any magic items does not seem reasonable for 11th level. Like, while this verges upon the talked-to-death-then-back-to-life-then-talked-to-death-again &quot;fighters can't have nice things&quot; debate, I feel like the game's default assumption is that an 11th level fighter would have at least a magic weapon and magic armor, and if not a magic shield, then the magic weapon or armor would most likely have an ability, plus some minor magic items you could replace with potions of healing for the sake of simplicity. (I am pretty sure the &quot;character wealth by level&quot; table, vague as it is in 5E, allows for an 11th level fighter to &quot;buy&quot; all of these things using the &quot;magic item value&quot; table, as ULTRA VAGUE as that is in 5E.)&nbsp; </blockquote>

[QUOTE="ParanoydStyle, post: 7622434, member: 6984451"] [COLOR=#333333] I'd be surprised if someone else hasn't already pointed this out three pages into the thread, but you cannot, in fact, have both of these things. Unless I'm misunderstanding the 5E rules, which is possible. (Doesn't matter much in this case, as the error appears both on the 11th level fighters and the 1st level fighters, but I think the +2 bonus to damage from dueling requires you to have your off-hand free.) Anyway, it seems to me like the first level fighter's ability to Second Wind is a HUGE factor here. What would the numbers look like without that, out of curiosity? (i.e. assuming that the 1st level Fighters had already used their Second Wind for the day or whatever). Oh and, I realize everyone knows this, but a differently spec'd 11th level fighter might be able to kill more 1st level fighters before he goes down, like without getting into the "calculation is a nightmare" stuff like combat maneuvers, just things like a great big two-handed weapon fighter (I think the greatsword is mathematically the best in 5E Oh, and the rule of the 11th level fighter not having any magic items does not seem reasonable for 11th level. Like, while this verges upon the talked-to-death-then-back-to-life-then-talked-to-death-again "fighters can't have nice things" debate, I feel like the game's default assumption is that an 11th level fighter would have at least a magic weapon and magic armor, and if not a magic shield, then the magic weapon or armor would most likely have an ability, plus some minor magic items you could replace with potions of healing for the sake of simplicity. (I am pretty sure the "character wealth by level" table, vague as it is in 5E, allows for an 11th level fighter to "buy" all of these things using the "magic item value" table, as ULTRA VAGUE as that is in 5E.) [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]

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