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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3798669" data-attributes="member: 22882">A gain OF new players?  Possibly, even probably, not.  A gain FOR new players?  I'm pretty confident on that one.  In my experience, new players generally come into fantasy RPGs expecting to play fantasy heroes - be those heroes Aragorn and Legolas, Conan and Fafhrd or Cloud and Auron - and are shocked to discover that their characters aren't even in the same range as heroic characters.  Those who cut their teeth on MMORPGs may have a different perspective, I'll concede; MMORPGs pretty much adopted D&D's 'suck until you grind for XP' model whole-hog. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I guess my problem is that I can't think of any fantasy sources other than D&D and electronic games directly derived from it that have characters as LAME as 1st level D&D characters.  The regular soldier characters in the Black Company or Suikoden come pretty close, but certainly the main characters are at low- to mid-heroic levels of EFFECTIVENESS in both, and personal power in the latter.  I suppose the hobbits in LotR at least start out with 1st level D&D incompetence, although that would probably be better modeled using something like Cinematic Unisystem, with the hobbits having huge stockpiles of Drama Points to compensate for their relative weakness.To me, the 'choose other systems' option is the ideal one.  A system focused on a particular power level, like Black Company or WHFR or RuneQuest or Silhouette Core, invariably covers it with more depth than one providing a particular power level for what by default would be a few sessions.  Admittedly, though, I have a great deal of fondness for more granularity in character advancement.Mutants and Masterminds is, indeed, concentrated awesome. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I personally would hate this change, because the fact that SWSE characters can be very competent in a skill from 1st level is a huge plus for me, and I haven't seen any in-play evidence that effective Jedi pwn effective soldiers at 1st level or above against the assumed opposition.Keep in mind, though, that I'm not advocating a direct port of the Force for D&D 4e; I've tried that already. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  I expect magic won't be skill-based in 4e, and for all other skills the SWSE style is pure, undiluted gravy to me.</blockquote>

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