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How many attacks?
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<blockquote data-quote="jlhorner1974" data-source="post: 766003" data-attributes="member: 8628"><p>I haven't read the Sage's ruling, so I cannot comment on that. </p><p>I'll accept that TWF stacks with Rapid Shot, but I don't think it matters here.</p><p></p><p>I think what the Player's Handbook is trying to say is that the increased rate of attacks with your Monk unarmed BAB already reflects "attacking with all parts of your body" -- it effectively replaces off hand attacks from wielding multiple weapons. </p><p></p><p>If you are wielding nothing but monk weapons, it is treated as if you are not fighting with two hands at all -- you cannot make an off hand attack but you do not suffer the normal penalties in regards to two-weapon fighting either. </p><p></p><p>If you are wielding any weapon that is not a monk weapon, then you have to use your normal BAB and rate of attacks and you are subject to the normal two-weapon-fighting penalties (and you cannot flurry). But you get an off hand attack, and if you are using a thrown weapon, another extra attack with Rapid Shot. But the point is, even non-Monks can do this.</p><p></p><p>In the example you gave with a kama in each hand, you are not treated as fighting with two hands, so the fact that TWF stacks with Rapid Shot is not important. The question that is important is, does Rapid Shot stack with flurry? I say no.</p><p></p><p>The way I see Rapid Shot is similar to flurry, in both cases, you are attacking at a faster pace in exchange for less accuracy. Either you are doing it with the flurry (which is only for monk weapons) or with Rapid Shot (ranged weapons only). I don't think it makes a lot of sense to allow both to stack for a ranged monk weapon. Flurry basically already gives you Rapid Shot for free with a thrown monk weapon.</p><p></p><p>Also, the rules do not state this, but I would not allow any character to use Rapid Shot if the extra attack it grants is the only ranged attack that round. I see Rapid Shot working as you have been shooting all round at an increased pace so you have time to get one extra shot in. I don't see it as "I have been meleeing with a dagger all round and then if I throw it at the end, I can get one extra attack because of rapid shot."</p><p></p><p>Rapid Shot is still useful for monks using other ranged weapons (bows, crossbows) that they cannot flurry with.</p><p></p><p>My point regarding Quick Draw and throwing was more that if Rapid Shot does let you get an extra attack on top of the regular attacks and flurry extra attack, the throwing of the kama would have to be the last attack you make, since once you throw the kama, you can't get it back until next round. But, like I said, I don't think Rapid Shot stacks with flurry.</p><p></p><p>On one point of yours, I completely agree. It would be great if this could be clarified so we know exactly what stacks with what and what exactly can a monk do when wielding two weapons.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jlhorner1974, post: 766003, member: 8628"] I haven't read the Sage's ruling, so I cannot comment on that. I'll accept that TWF stacks with Rapid Shot, but I don't think it matters here. I think what the Player's Handbook is trying to say is that the increased rate of attacks with your Monk unarmed BAB already reflects "attacking with all parts of your body" -- it effectively replaces off hand attacks from wielding multiple weapons. If you are wielding nothing but monk weapons, it is treated as if you are not fighting with two hands at all -- you cannot make an off hand attack but you do not suffer the normal penalties in regards to two-weapon fighting either. If you are wielding any weapon that is not a monk weapon, then you have to use your normal BAB and rate of attacks and you are subject to the normal two-weapon-fighting penalties (and you cannot flurry). But you get an off hand attack, and if you are using a thrown weapon, another extra attack with Rapid Shot. But the point is, even non-Monks can do this. In the example you gave with a kama in each hand, you are not treated as fighting with two hands, so the fact that TWF stacks with Rapid Shot is not important. The question that is important is, does Rapid Shot stack with flurry? I say no. The way I see Rapid Shot is similar to flurry, in both cases, you are attacking at a faster pace in exchange for less accuracy. Either you are doing it with the flurry (which is only for monk weapons) or with Rapid Shot (ranged weapons only). I don't think it makes a lot of sense to allow both to stack for a ranged monk weapon. Flurry basically already gives you Rapid Shot for free with a thrown monk weapon. Also, the rules do not state this, but I would not allow any character to use Rapid Shot if the extra attack it grants is the only ranged attack that round. I see Rapid Shot working as you have been shooting all round at an increased pace so you have time to get one extra shot in. I don't see it as "I have been meleeing with a dagger all round and then if I throw it at the end, I can get one extra attack because of rapid shot." Rapid Shot is still useful for monks using other ranged weapons (bows, crossbows) that they cannot flurry with. My point regarding Quick Draw and throwing was more that if Rapid Shot does let you get an extra attack on top of the regular attacks and flurry extra attack, the throwing of the kama would have to be the last attack you make, since once you throw the kama, you can't get it back until next round. But, like I said, I don't think Rapid Shot stacks with flurry. On one point of yours, I completely agree. It would be great if this could be clarified so we know exactly what stacks with what and what exactly can a monk do when wielding two weapons. [/QUOTE]
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