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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5893247" data-attributes="member: 92511">The issue of boiling it down to the &quot;core four&quot; (which I have no issue with really. Too many years playing BECM/B/X, I suppose) and then saying, Well we could boil it down to three: Fighter/Martial guy; Expert/Specialist guy; Magic guy...seems to stop short for no good reason.The argument could be made you need two classes: Caster and Non-caster. Magic-using/Not-magic-using. And then create to the nine hells and nine heavens everything off of that.That works for a lot of people and a lot pf games. But it's not &quot;D&amp;D&quot;. It's like, in cooking terms. Do you want Balsamic Vinegar? Vinegarette? A Balsamic&nbsp; reduction? Or some burnt solid blackness at the bottom of the pot that&nbsp; won't pour?D&amp;D is a class based system. Lament it as the day is long if you wish. But that's what it is. Making it something else is making it &quot;not D&amp;D.&quot; Take your &quot;build points&quot; and go home. D&amp;D has classes. Fantasy archetypes that are strong enough to warrant a specific class. If some of them are &quot;specialized&quot; well...so what? That's what the game has always been. Four broad open categories that you can make your own. Or these other (usually in the neighborhood of 8-12 more) &quot;sub-classes&quot; that get all kindsa cool powers and extra abilities at the expense of others. Specific archetypes that are understood and spark the imagination.No, D&amp;D doesn't...it can't...allow for a written out class for every permutation of your imagination. Personally, I don't think it should. It is D&amp;D. Play and enjoy...BEND what you can to suit your needs! Make what you can from it...what your group/DM allows...or, to put it perhaps a bit too bluntly, play something else. We didn't have the options &quot;back in the day&quot;. Now you do! Rejoice in the choices!Because your paladin can't be the paladin you want to play (with all of the bells and whistles but none of the restrictions) or your assassin doesn't have the shadow-magic powers you want it to have does not mean D&amp;D MUST make a class to suit your needs. Homebrew it or play something that does let you play that character...like some other version of D&amp;D that DOES have it!If 12-15 choices isn't enough...than maybe D&amp;D isn't your game. Nothing wrong with that. Play what you like. It is about having fun, after all.I sincerely hope 5e gives everyone what they want...the OPTIONS to make up whatever they might want. But, again, the possibilities are infinite! You can't expect a class-based game to have everything you want in it...the best it can do is come close. And that should not try to be by offering seventy-teen-hundred distinct classes with all of their own rules.--SD</blockquote>

[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 5893247, member: 92511"] The issue of boiling it down to the "core four" (which I have no issue with really. Too many years playing BECM/B/X, I suppose) and then saying, Well we could boil it down to three: Fighter/Martial guy; Expert/Specialist guy; Magic guy...seems to stop short for no good reason. The argument[I] could[/I] be made you need two classes: Caster and Non-caster. Magic-using/Not-magic-using. And then create to the nine hells and nine heavens everything off of that. That works for a lot of people and a lot pf games. But it's not "D&D". It's like, in cooking terms. Do you want Balsamic Vinegar? Vinegarette? A Balsamic reduction? Or some burnt solid blackness at the bottom of the pot that won't pour? D&D is a class based system. Lament it as the day is long if you wish. But that's what it is. Making it something else is making it "not D&D." Take your "build points" and go home. D&D has classes. Fantasy archetypes that are strong enough to warrant a specific class. If some of them are "specialized" well...so what? That's what the game has always been. Four broad open categories that you can make your own. Or these other (usually in the neighborhood of 8-12 more) "sub-classes" that get all kindsa cool powers and extra abilities at the expense of others. Specific archetypes that are understood and spark the imagination. No, D&D doesn't...it[I] can't[/I]...allow for a written out class for every permutation of your imagination. Personally, I don't think it should. It is D&D. Play and enjoy...BEND what you can to suit your needs! Make what you can from it...what your group/DM allows...or, to put it perhaps a bit too bluntly, play something else. We didn't have the options "back in the day". Now you do! Rejoice in the choices! Because your paladin can't be the paladin you want to play (with all of the bells and whistles but none of the restrictions) or your assassin doesn't have the shadow-magic powers you want it to have does not mean D&D MUST make a class to suit your needs. Homebrew it or play something that does let you play that character...like some other version of D&D that DOES have it! If 12-15 choices isn't enough...than maybe D&D isn't your game. Nothing wrong with that. Play what you like. It is about having fun, after all. I sincerely hope 5e gives everyone what they want...the OPTIONS to make up whatever they might want. But, again, the possibilities are infinite! You can't expect a class-based game to have everything you want in it...the best it can do is come close. And that should not try to be by offering seventy-teen-hundred distinct classes with all of their own rules. --SD [/QUOTE]

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