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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6289422" data-attributes="member: 4937">While the difficulty of a hunter in killing a deer is a problem I have deliberately introduced into my rules for a variety of reasons, including solving the problematic issue of scale between say farmers and house cats, I think you are exaggerating the problem here far beyond what actually exists in the RAW.And there is your problem.&nbsp; I'd guess most deer have about 5 hit points, IIRC.&nbsp; Certainly in 1e they were 1/2 of 1 HD animals.&nbsp;&nbsp; A pony suitable for riding weighs between 500 and 1000lbs depending on the breed.&nbsp; Whereas a 200lb deer is a pretty big deer.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you have 11 h.p. deer, then the problem becomes why doesn't the deer just kill things since it greatly outclasses the hunters?&nbsp; Why are we assuming the commoner hunter has 2.5 h.p. when the animal of about the same weight has 11.5?I've done enough hunting to have encountered the problem of a deer someone else stuck with an arrow, they didn't kill the deer and now the flesh has closed up around the point.&nbsp; While hitting a deer with a broad head from a compound bow usually kills it, it rarely drops it.&nbsp; Generally you have to track it until it bleeds out.&nbsp; A critical hit from a longbow does 3d8, and though I agree it shouldn't take 20 attempts to get a kill, if we assume deer are 1HD the problem becomes more logical.&nbsp;&nbsp; Historically speaking, stalking deer with bows was rarely the way they were killed because it is extremely difficult.&nbsp; Native American hunters preferred snare traps, for example.&nbsp; Bear were almost always taken with deadfalls, not bows.&nbsp; Bison were almost always taken by driving them off a cliff, or later by lance once horses came along.&nbsp; Is it perfectly realistic?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; I've not encountered the system that manages that, despite playing around with GULLIVER for a while.&nbsp;&nbsp; But you are exaggerating the problem, or else you are dealing with problems introduced by poor monster design.&nbsp; An example of pervasive poor monster design in 3e is that everything has a constitution bonus (except elves).&nbsp; Constitution is vastly overestimated for most monsters if you are going for realism.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6289422, member: 4937"] While the difficulty of a hunter in killing a deer is a problem I have deliberately introduced into my rules for a variety of reasons, including solving the problematic issue of scale between say farmers and house cats, I think you are exaggerating the problem here far beyond what actually exists in the RAW. And there is your problem. I'd guess most deer have about 5 hit points, IIRC. Certainly in 1e they were 1/2 of 1 HD animals. A pony suitable for riding weighs between 500 and 1000lbs depending on the breed. Whereas a 200lb deer is a pretty big deer. If you have 11 h.p. deer, then the problem becomes why doesn't the deer just kill things since it greatly outclasses the hunters? Why are we assuming the commoner hunter has 2.5 h.p. when the animal of about the same weight has 11.5? I've done enough hunting to have encountered the problem of a deer someone else stuck with an arrow, they didn't kill the deer and now the flesh has closed up around the point. While hitting a deer with a broad head from a compound bow usually kills it, it rarely drops it. Generally you have to track it until it bleeds out. A critical hit from a longbow does 3d8, and though I agree it shouldn't take 20 attempts to get a kill, if we assume deer are 1HD the problem becomes more logical. Historically speaking, stalking deer with bows was rarely the way they were killed because it is extremely difficult. Native American hunters preferred snare traps, for example. Bear were almost always taken with deadfalls, not bows. Bison were almost always taken by driving them off a cliff, or later by lance once horses came along. Is it perfectly realistic? No. I've not encountered the system that manages that, despite playing around with GULLIVER for a while. But you are exaggerating the problem, or else you are dealing with problems introduced by poor monster design. An example of pervasive poor monster design in 3e is that everything has a constitution bonus (except elves). Constitution is vastly overestimated for most monsters if you are going for realism. [/QUOTE]

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