How many hit 'til you start dying?

[Minigiant]

How many successful normal hits (or failed saving throws) should the average character take before they go down?

Depending on edition, level, class, and type; the amount of hits (or failed saves) a character can take can be anywhere. This is caused by the number of HPs gained per level, the damage caused by hits, and the different systems use for the different types of hits.

I prefer about 4-5 hits before you die. That's just enough hits to roleplay a nice fight to me. The first 2 hits wear down your heoic defense. Then you get a lucky parry/dodge/block. Finally your luck and skill both run out and you get KOed.

I love level 3 4E characters. The damage to hp ratio is near perfect to me. You typically need to make 3-6 hits to drop someone. Usage of encounter/daily powers or being a striker/skrimisher/brute can make a hit count as multiple normal hits. Healing surges grant about a hit. Spell and weapon hit are the same. It's nice.

And by hits, i mean a rolled hit. Not a roleplayed one.

Somebody rolls a dice and something bad happens.
A d20 stops spinning, a high (or low) number is on top, and somebody loses HP.

Not a weapon actually hitting a character.

 

[Kzach]

It depends what you classify as a hit.

To me, the character only gets hit in two situations. Once when first bloodied and again whenever reduced to 0 hit points.

All other 'hits' don't do physical damage. They're glancing blows, scrapes and scratches, hit armour or shields or require the person to strain themselves to avoid being hurt.

 

[Minigiant]

A rolled hit, not a roleplayed one.

Someone rolls a dice and something bad happens.
A d20 stops spinning and somebody loses HP.

 

[Lanefan]

Just about impossible to answer for any edition at any level as there are just too many variables.

About the only pre-4e constant was that as a warrior you would in general be able to take more hits from a foe of your level as you went up in level - in other words your h.p. gain outran the increase in damage that appropriate enemies could give out. Which is why spells were invented.

After that, no answer here at all.

Lanefan

 

[Kzach]

A rolled hit, not a roleplayed one.

Someone rolls a dice and something bad happens.
A d20 stops spinning and somebody loses HP.

Again this comes down to the whole abstraction issue which has been debated to death here.

The fact of the matter is that hit points are not representative of damage only. This is stated in every edition of D&D. Your assumption that every hit equals physical damage is incorrect.

Now whether you like that or not is another matter altogether. My statements in my first post here, however, hold true and are not 'roleplayed' hits.

 

[Rel]

The fact of the matter is that hit points are not representative of damage only. This is stated in every edition of D&D. Your assumption that every hit equals physical damage is incorrect.

Now whether you like that or not is another matter altogether. My statements in my first post here, however, hold true and are not 'roleplayed' hits.

He never said that. He said "rolled hits". As in the bad guy hit your (whatever) defense. Feel free to stop putting words in his mouth.

 

[Kzach]

He never said that. He said "rolled hits". As in the bad guy hit your (whatever) defense. Feel free to stop putting words in his mouth.

Umm... wtf?

 

[Minigiant]

Let me be clearer.

Your longsword fighter is fighting a goblin. How many times should your attack rolls be the goblin's AC before it dies.

In 3.5E, a 1st level goblin can't take 1 longsword hit due to it's low hp. A fighter's average damage with a longsword is greater than the 5 hp the goblin has.

In 4E, a nonminion level 1 goblin could usually take 4 basic attacks from a goblin before going down. They usually run after 2 though.

So what do you prefer?
1 hit and you die (pre 4e low level, death spells, minions, cheese)

a couple hits and you're toast (the beginning of most 4e tiers)

Grind, grind, grind through the HPs. (unoptimised characters, high level 4e, elites)

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I play OD&D. A normal man can take 1-6 hit points of damage before dying. A successful hit from a weapon does 1-6 points of damage. Thus, it's possible to kill a normal man with a single hit. (See here for more on damage and hit points.) Strength doesn't modify damage in the 3-18 range (although Ogres get a +2, so the modifiers start just outside the range of human strength). Constitution gives you a +1 per hit die if you have a score of 15 or better. (See here for more on ability scores & bonuses.)

A 1st level Fighting Man is a "Veteran," so he's just a notch above a normal man. He gets 1d6+1 for hit dice. Each level after 1st makes him about "1 man" more capable. Thus, a second level Fighting Man is equivalent to 2 normal men (2d6 hit dice), and a fourth level Fighting Man (a Hero) is equivalent to four normal men (4d6 hit dice), and an eight level Fighting Man (a Superhero) is equivalent to about eight normal men (8d6+2 hit dice).

Additionally, when fighting "normal" enemies (i.e. those with 1HD or less), a Fighting Man can attack a number of times equal to his level. So a 4th level Hero in melee with a group of normal men (with 1HD) or goblins (with 1-1HD) could attack four times per melee round. However, if the normal men were led by a Veteran (1+1HD), the Hero would only get a single attack per melee round. Likewise, if the goblins were led by a Hobgoblin, the Hero would only get a single attack. This is OD&D's "mow down the mooks" rule -- you can slice and dice, but if a "fantastic" enemy engages you, that demands your attention, to some degree. (This is stuff derived from Chainmail and the OD&D FAQ printed in Strategic Review -- see here.)

 

[Lanefan]

I play OD&D. A normal man can take 1-6 hit points of damage before dying. A successful hit from a weapon does 1-6 points of damage. Thus, it's possible to kill a normal man with a single hit. (See here for more on damage and hit points.) Strength doesn't modify damage in the 3-18 range (although Ogres get a +2, so the modifiers start just outside the range of human strength). Constitution gives you a +1 per hit die if you have a score of 15 or better. (See here for more on ability scores & bonuses.)

A 1st level Fighting Man is a "Veteran," so he's just a notch above a normal man. He gets 1d6+1 for hit dice. Each level after 1st makes him about "1 man" more capable. Thus, a second level Fighting Man is equivalent to 2 normal men (2d6 hit dice), and a fourth level Fighting Man (a Hero) is equivalent to four normal men (4d6 hit dice), and an eight level Fighting Man (a Superhero) is equivalent to about eight normal men (8d6+2 hit dice).

1e's similar....almost.

The "standard" weapon in 1e is the longsword, which gives out 1d8 damage each hit, assuming no bonuses (average = 4.5). A Fighter gets 1d10 per level (average 5.5), so on average will "gain" about a point per level; thus by 5th level has gained 5 extra points and is thus good for one extra hit. A Cleric gets 1d8, thus advances at about the same relative rate as the OD+D Fighting Man in regards to the number of hits he can take at a given level. The normal man becomes slightly weaker, in that he still gets (I think) 1d6 h.p. (average 3.5) so a 4th level Fighter (4 x 5.5 = 22) is worth about 6 normal men (6 x 3.5 = 21). That said, h.p. gain slows to a crawl at about 10th level, at which point these formulae go out the window.

The other thing we're not considering at all here is armour. I don't care how many h.p. you've got; if you're not wearing any armour they're going to disappear in a hurry. Conversely, if your AC is in the basement (in 1e lower is better) you can get away with having fewer h.p., and this to me represents a far bigger source of combat grind than higher h.p. totals: the armour class of both sides being good enough that the opposition can't score a hit very often.

Lanefan