Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How many people do you know who haven't switched to 5e, and why haven't they?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6789788" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>Thanks for adding a different perspective!</p><p></p><p>I will say that one of the most difficult things for me in running my beloved 5e is keeping the balance of party power vs. believable challenges interacting properly.</p><p></p><p>5e characters are <em>powerful</em> compared to most editions of the game. Sure, at 1st (and maybe at 2nd) level they are pretty squishy. But 3rd level feels like 5th level from 1e-3e as far as power level.</p><p></p><p>And most of the monsters--even classic ones that used to be scary challenges (including many undead) are now low CR creatures. Solo fights don't really work, so that means you need minions for your opponents. The difficult part is when minions don't make sense.</p><p></p><p>Take, say, the banshee. In 3e their CR was 17. I don't recall how strong they were in AD&D, but based on my recollection of other undead, I'm guessing they were pretty tough customers.</p><p></p><p>In 5e their CR is 4. That means a party of 4th-level characters should have no problem with them. A party of 3rd-level characters can probably also take them out, and a party of 2nd-level characters might even be able to pull it off with some losses.</p><p></p><p>So how am I supposed to use a banshee as a higher level threat? Either I can artificially inflate stats (which I hate), I can give her class levels (better, but I don't like it being a required modfication), add some minions that might even be more powerful than she is, and/or make it so that the actual confrontation with the banshee isn't the hard part--it's finding her and getting to that confrontation in the first place.</p><p></p><p>Now sure, this sort of thing isn't a problem if you don't mind being absurd and throwing a half dozen banshees instead of one at your mid to high level party--and my guess is that some DMs run their campaigns exactly like that. But for me, the world has to make sense. Rare sounding creatures are rare. Creatures that tend to be unique individuals rather than parts of groups generally are so.</p><p></p><p>I'm just not into the idea of using methods that strain suspension of disbelief to increase the challenges as the party advances. I prefer adventures that simply deal with more powerful foes in the way that makes sense for those foes. Since 5e downgraded the power level of so many foes (though granted, the stats make a lot of sense for many of them--and that is something I find to be a good thing), it makes it require a lot more creativity as a DM to give play-style satisfying challenges to higher level parties.</p><p></p><p>It still ends up that I like 5e the best, and am willing to creatively deal with that issue rather than the issues of the other editions.</p><p></p><p>As an aside, it doesn't sound like 5e is working for you, but for others who might like it but have problems with too much healing (I know I do), I'd recommend using both the Healer's Kit Dependency and Slow Natural Healing variants from the DMG. That generally means that a character who has used up all their health resources (including hit points and HD) will take 5 to 7 days to fully recover without magical healing. I'd also recommend changing the fighter's Second Wind to temporary hit points, and not let them activate it until they are at or below half hit points (since Second Wind is fine when everyone regains all hit points each morning, but is absurd when everyone else takes a week to recover). You might want to disallow or nerf the Healer feat also. Those rules should get you down to 3e non-magical healing levels or slightly less, which I find acceptable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 6789788, member: 6677017"] Thanks for adding a different perspective! I will say that one of the most difficult things for me in running my beloved 5e is keeping the balance of party power vs. believable challenges interacting properly. 5e characters are [I]powerful[/I] compared to most editions of the game. Sure, at 1st (and maybe at 2nd) level they are pretty squishy. But 3rd level feels like 5th level from 1e-3e as far as power level. And most of the monsters--even classic ones that used to be scary challenges (including many undead) are now low CR creatures. Solo fights don't really work, so that means you need minions for your opponents. The difficult part is when minions don't make sense. Take, say, the banshee. In 3e their CR was 17. I don't recall how strong they were in AD&D, but based on my recollection of other undead, I'm guessing they were pretty tough customers. In 5e their CR is 4. That means a party of 4th-level characters should have no problem with them. A party of 3rd-level characters can probably also take them out, and a party of 2nd-level characters might even be able to pull it off with some losses. So how am I supposed to use a banshee as a higher level threat? Either I can artificially inflate stats (which I hate), I can give her class levels (better, but I don't like it being a required modfication), add some minions that might even be more powerful than she is, and/or make it so that the actual confrontation with the banshee isn't the hard part--it's finding her and getting to that confrontation in the first place. Now sure, this sort of thing isn't a problem if you don't mind being absurd and throwing a half dozen banshees instead of one at your mid to high level party--and my guess is that some DMs run their campaigns exactly like that. But for me, the world has to make sense. Rare sounding creatures are rare. Creatures that tend to be unique individuals rather than parts of groups generally are so. I'm just not into the idea of using methods that strain suspension of disbelief to increase the challenges as the party advances. I prefer adventures that simply deal with more powerful foes in the way that makes sense for those foes. Since 5e downgraded the power level of so many foes (though granted, the stats make a lot of sense for many of them--and that is something I find to be a good thing), it makes it require a lot more creativity as a DM to give play-style satisfying challenges to higher level parties. It still ends up that I like 5e the best, and am willing to creatively deal with that issue rather than the issues of the other editions. As an aside, it doesn't sound like 5e is working for you, but for others who might like it but have problems with too much healing (I know I do), I'd recommend using both the Healer's Kit Dependency and Slow Natural Healing variants from the DMG. That generally means that a character who has used up all their health resources (including hit points and HD) will take 5 to 7 days to fully recover without magical healing. I'd also recommend changing the fighter's Second Wind to temporary hit points, and not let them activate it until they are at or below half hit points (since Second Wind is fine when everyone regains all hit points each morning, but is absurd when everyone else takes a week to recover). You might want to disallow or nerf the Healer feat also. Those rules should get you down to 3e non-magical healing levels or slightly less, which I find acceptable. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How many people do you know who haven't switched to 5e, and why haven't they?
Top