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Message: <blockquote data-quote="incognito" data-source="post: 569632" data-attributes="member: 7008">I'm back to defend my postion.First: Happy New Year Y'all.P-Cat: No apologies necessary.  The things I say, can be pretty heavy handed sometimes (yet another real-life failed charima check, I guess), and it was very heavy handed to mention them in a thread you started asking for help! Any vehement coutner - post is deserved.  Small counter comment to the "frothing" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  I did not say you are doing it wrong, just raised my eyebrows. I have been a positive contributor to your campaign in the past, and am happy to do so again in the future. I love readig the DoD story hour.  I do reserve the right to disagree with things that you post (quoting included) - I thought the message boards were about the exchange of ideas in this manner, even if we don't agree.  I will DEFINITELY us more tact in the future, and do not want to infer you are a bad DM (because it clear to the whole of ENWorld, incl me, that you are not!).And onto defending my position:PROBLEM: Some classes are front loaded, and have little at the end of the level speectrum (15-20)DM/WotC Solution(?): Create PrCs with nifty abilites which will enable a character to climb a different ability tree, and at the same time add a specific flavor to the game world. Add pre-requisites as a nod twds balance.The solution has an inherent flaw.  PrCs can easily suffer from the same Front loading problems that Character classes suffer from.  Also, players beginning at levels higher than 1 can design class/race/feat combinations to quilify for a presitige class in a way to minimize the restrictions, and take full advantage of of strengths.That's not (IMO) the intent of PrCs.  It is also my belive that WotC did not expect characters to take on multiple PrCs.I'll make a bold statement here, feel free to shoot it down.  mult-classing with core classes is NOT the same a multiclassing PrC.  Especially with regard to the 4 basic classes (ftr, clr, rge, wiz).PrCs are meant to have LOTS of flavor, while I belive the core classes were meant to be basic, with feat selection and skill selection adding the flavor.  I am a big fan of multi-classing.  My favorite character so far was a Monk2/Druid6 (NPC).  While he didn't do a ton of damage, casting greater magic fang on his natural weapons was neat!  A cool character concept.  The in-game justification is that the character attined "monk-dom" seeking sptitual enlightenment away from mainkind in the wilderness, and eventually reverted to a more wild state.  An unusual class combo to be sure, but not a pwoer-games one, simply one that "worked" (unlike, say,: Wiz2/Sorc2/Bard1/Druid1 a sixth level ccacster with no second level spells and a +2 BAB is...let's just say, "unfortunate." Someone asked how havign a death ray gun (8d8 as a ranged touch attack was the same as having a muchy PrC).Well if I made a PrC (or series of PrCs) which everyone could have access to, that granted strong, front loaded powers, then everyone would want/take it, and have a lot of added "power" for relatively little "cost." In the same way we see characters creating front loaded mutli-class combos that are awfully annoying.   Like Ranger1/Paladin2/Rouge3/FighterX.  Good saves, great abilites, great skills esp. if the character begins as a rogue.  And the character has taken levels in a series of front loaded classes.In both the the Monk/Druid, and the Ranger/Paladin fiasco approached me for a PrC that fit thier feat selection AND had abilites that complimented thier existing skills (like +1 caster level for the Monl/Druid) I'd have to laugh right in the players faces.  Regardless of thier intentions it would  be a mechanism for them to gain abilities they wanted to achive, rather than the remaining default abilites for the class.I think the reason P-Cats post struck such a cord within me, is that the players are looking to do this for their next level which they are about to gain - and apologies tp P-Cat for bringin up his game.  So, let's not look a P-Cats campaign. Consider a generic gaming world. The players ask the DM to find a PrC for them that fits an existing feat, sklills, alignment, and class chain: oh yeah, and I'm going to gain a level of it next week (or in a few weeks).  As a counte proposal: Why not make the PrC at the beginning of THIS level, and have the players role-play their next whole level, tryng to role-play qualify for it.  Not that aren't/weren' role-playing before, but now they are seeking something nique, and perhaps unique qualifications are called for: BAB, FEAT, and skills pre-reqs don't seem to be enough. Especially if the PrC in question has font loaded abilities.As a better/alternate solution, why not simply swap out some of the paladin class feature, and grant soem "neat" paladin features.  Nothing grand, mind you - again Paladins gain BAB, more healing, and are working twds more spells.  But an extra smite, or a minor divine feat might be called for instead of more "cure disease."Final note: I think the DM should be the one to come up with ALL the PrCs in his/her world.  Ideally, all created at the beginning of the campaign, but  genrally created NOT with an existing character in mind.  I would require at least 1 or 2 levels of a player chracter prusuing the PrC befoure I would allow him/her to level in the PrC, and finally, I'd require them to finish the PrC unless extreme role-play circumstance prevented it.Whew, a mouthful -bring on the bashing, I did ask for it this time...</blockquote>

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