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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RigaMortus2" data-source="post: 5821002" data-attributes="member: 11586">I will echo what I posted in an alternate thread...I'd like to see Classes not defined by roles. I'd like to see a "support" Fighter (basically the 4e Warlord), or a "tank" Wizard (ie a melee wizard), or a Rogue "healer" (which could be a Bard).I think a Class should define how you go about doing things (Fighters swing a sword and use other weapons, Bards sing, Mages cast spells, etc).I think a role should give you benefits that work in conjunction with your class features, but support the type of role you want to play.I think a theme should round-out your character, and make your class more specific. Perhaps give non-combat related abilities in some instances.For example:Class: FighterRole: SupportTheme: KnightSo the Fighter class gives you a wide array of weapons and armor to use. You are good at hitting with weapons. You may have a class feature that supports this like Weapon Specialization, where you do extra damage with a specific weapon (where as other classes don't get this ability).You choose Support, so when you make your weapon attacks, you bolster your allies, and perhaps on each successful hit, your allies get bonuses to hit the same target. Or perhaps the target you strike is weaked by your blow and deals less damage with their next attackIf you picked a "Striker" role, you would perhaps deal more damage with your attacks. If you picked a "Defender" role, perhaps you have a 4e "mark" like effect that encourages the target to attack you back rather then your allies. If you picked a "Controller" type role, perhaps you can push your target back 5 feet on a successful swing.You picked Knight as your theme. So perhaps you start with a Horse and Squire. Perhaps you get a bonus to hit and damage when using a Lance. Perhaps you have a "challenge" ability to challenge a foe and get a bonus against them. Perhaps you gain a skill bonus when making Nobility checks.Class is the method to deliveryRole is the result of what happens when you deliver (deliver an attack, deliver a spell, deliver a heal, etc).Theme rounds out your class and better defines it, gives you a synergy.Lets mix it up now...Class: RogueRole: ControllerTheme: KnightSo perhaps the schtick about the Rogue class is that they deal extra damage when an opponent is flanked or unaware of them.With the Controller role, perhaps the Rogue can trip (because that is controller-ish) an opponent when he successfully hits them while they are flanked.With the Knight theme, the Rogue gets all the benefits as the Fighter above did. But he is not a very noble Knight. He uses trickery and fights dirty, and has no problem with flanking an enemy. But he may be beholden to a king, he has the proper training in Lance, he has a horse and a squire, etc. All the things the Fighter-Knight has, except he is very different because he is a Rogue scoundrel type and not a Fighter-in-your-face combatant type.Anyway, those are some options and ways to go about inserting classes, roles and themes. I think it allows for a mix-match of endless possibilities if they go this route. No two-Fighters have to be the same. They are better defined by role and then theme. You can have a party of all Fighters, and fulfill each role. Perhaps a squad of infantry in a military based campaign, where having a cleric or mage wouldn't make sense, yet those roles (healing, striker, control, support, defense, etc.) would still be fulfilled.</blockquote>

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