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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RenleyRenfield" data-source="post: 9697781" data-attributes="member: 7044197">I think it has first and foremost to do with = how easy and simple are the steps.   And then equally importantly, how good is the reference sheet to those things? For example = RuneQuest is testing a new combat system where its stages of combat: Prep > Magic > Ranged > Move > Melee  where in each of those steps you make a roll for an Action you can do on that stage.  This has been great for some folks who like simple games, because it walks them through each option of each round = "Can you do this now? yes = roll, no = skip."   And they feel more empowered to know options of what they can possibly do.  As well, its a "Roll equal to or under your own skill", so you dont need to reference anything from anywhere else.  They don't need to know the constantly changing array of enemy AC or skills or whatever.  if its opposed, its the same roll, just opposed.  winner does the thing. Lots of steps?  yeah!   But guided, simple, quick steps.  So... seems "less complicated" than a system where the values and number change action to action. Is it simple? no. its still a busy crunchy system. ....Now let's look at 2d20 Momentum = roll 2d20, offer Heat to GM to get more d20s or spend Momentum you have saved up to get more d20s.  Then roll against your own skill TN, and count successes.  Are they less than, then fail. Are they equal to, succeed.  Are they more then each more is momentum gained.  Now spend momentum again for damage, spend for bonus damage on ammo or such, roll damage, check armor, check for special damage effect types, mark hp lost, check for wounds and apply as needed.   Oh SHEESH = LOTS of steps, LOTS of options, LOTS of changes constantly.  A good system, but without a really good reference sheet AND great character sheet = this is a mess waiting to have things forgotten or skipped. - Is it really more rules than D&D  = no.  Its actually about the same amount of moving parts and options, but they are all options... so that can be a difficult thing.  Decent amount of tracking things too.......NOW for the game everyone wants to play but is afraid to <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  (*just being cheeky)   PBTARoll to do the thing, select options on Move (sometimes Gm selects, sometimes Player does).  mark Stress if any = done.  SUPER simple!!  yet, so much so that most players have no idea what they can do (they are used to limiting permissive games), or worse yet = they wrongly assume the Move are the only things they can do (wrong wrong).  So ... sometimes simple is not what people are looking for. ...Yeah, Daggerheart is cumbersome for its armor and damage rules.  I still don't think their design on that was smart or clever.  Kinda lame when there are other mechanics that could get at the "small numbers" of HP and damage they were chasing... SO in that case, there are Obtuse rules that are not super complex, but not clear on their purpose either (to the average table player who likes to be able to see their chances in the function.) .....The MOST intuitive and 'simple' and elegant system I have personally seen is the first print of World of Darkness (that used to be called new world of darkness, you know, mage the awakening, vampire the requiem, etc = but NOT NOT their 2nd edition extra crunchy tilt junk). In that system we had dots. count the dots.  Everything in the game was "on a scale of 1 to 10" = one of the most intuitive phrasings ever.  You roll dice, count how many came up 8+ as a success.  And successes were also "on a scale of 1 to 10" how well you did (well, 1 to 5, but that's the same thing).   Nothing was easier for any age or level of player to count dots, count successes, count damage, reduce by soak (if any).  I have never had a game system that took almost zero explanation as WoD did. = was it balanced? no .  Was it fair? no.  Was it tactical or realistic? no.   ...but it was really easy to grok.  and fist-fulls of d10s feels fun...</blockquote>

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