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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6011775" data-attributes="member: 92511">Well, to your original question of this thread, Minigiant, I am inclined to say a nice round number per base class, like 10 each. But then, once you get out of the big 4, there are those specialized classes that get more "niche-y" as you break them down...and so coming up with 10 different ways to "Build-a-Bard" or "Build-a-Warlock" gets a little more challenging.Then, of course, there is the consideration of page count and just how much space does each class warrant...which would stem a fairly silly argument with no right answers, and thus why I would like to see them simply do X "specialties" across the board for the appearance of fairness so people can't (or at least be less likely to) complain.So maybe, say, 10 for each of the "Big 4" and 3 for everyone else. You'll have an example of what, mechanically, goes into each of those 3 builds, and so if you want an "Astral Sight Warlock Swashbuckler" you just take the "Fey Pact" and adjust a few of the abilities to suit the flavor of the build you want and tack on one of the "Fighter" themes that Warlock wouldn't normally have access to. Now, does this mean certain people will not get their specific desired build in the book...yes. Yes it does. The possibility to incorporate all class permutations and character concepts that people might want to see, quite simply, is "0". (and I have no doubt in the following list there will be SOMEthing that SOMEone SOMEwhere just has to have in their game and thus, when it comes out, "5e sucks cuz they didn't include my..." ). Recognize it, prepare for it, accept it and/or get over it. There is simply zero percent chance of there being everything you want...especially in the initial release.Ok, so all of that out of the way/off my chest...I have packing to do to get to the airport later, so le's get on with this...Fighter "Styles"-Slayer: whatever it is/does now-Guardian: whatever it does now. -Archer: bow specialist-Dual-wielder: use 2 single-handed weapons at once-Weapon Specialist: Use any sort of hand-held weapon extra well and do a few tricks with your weapon of choice. I see little reason, especially with the self-imposed space constraint of 10 options, to make two-handed weapons its own thing, though I'm sure this will raise righteous fury from the peanut galleries.-Mounted Combatant: use weapons while mounted, extra damage with lances?, a charging feat, riding tricks/using your mount in combat, etc...-Sword n' Board a.k.a. Shield-basher: Use of a shield, not just to add to AC but as a weapon and increase combat effectiveness when fighting with a shield (some of the Guardian's shtick?)-Sniper/Sharpshooter: some of the archer's tricks with a bit of stealth and sneaky thrown in. "Ranger- or Assassin-lite" if you will. Also can apply to other missile and thrown weapons besides a bow.-Berserker: Rage mechanic: deal extra damage, extra/temp HP, temp resist spells and damage/increase AC and saves, ye olde Barbarian rage stuff, ri'cheeah.-Commander: Warlord stuff. Imbue temp HP, resist fear/confusion effects, interaction bonuses (either through intimidation or inspiration) maybe a movement bonus for organizing troops in difficult terrain, etc.I do not think, necessarily these last two should be "Fighter only", and frankly probably none of them should be class specific at all,  That's enough toys to start play with (or at least get through 10 levels)Cleric "Domains"-Sun/Day-War-Moon/Night-Healing/Peace-Animals-Plants (either as wild/forests or cultivated/harvest, Artemis v. Demeter, Elhonna v. Yondalla, etc...or all together, but essentially presented with the same powers and control over green growing things you can flavor however you like)-Magic/Knowledge-Justice/Balance-Death-Undeath/DiseaseRogue "Schemes"-Thief-Thug-Charlatan-Spy-Acrobat-Jester-Minstrel/Performer (if you want a thesbian or some other type of performer)-Swashbuckler-Explorer/Jack of all trades-Guildmaster/Politician: interactive bonuses, commanding, intimidating, mega-bluff, throw in a few FollowersMage "Traditions"-Alchemist-Conjurer: expert at summonings and abjurations to hold and command what is summoned. -Illusionist-Necromancer-Diviner-Ceremonial Magician: ritual specialist, can duplicate/cast ANY spell (not just Arcane), given time and materials.-Battle-/Sword-mage: using magic through your armor and/or weapons (essentially anything beyond cantrips, you need your sword/weapon of choice).-Thaumaturgist: may choose arcane or divine spells (not any more per day! just can work/choose from either list), good with rituals also, a bit or prophecy maybe, religious/secret order types, hidden/secret/forgotten lore stuff.-Sorcerer: (I'm sorry, I just don't like it as it's own class, so consider this "Sorc-lite") Add in spontaneous casting for lower level spells as higher level ones are gained. Also, perhaps, a weapon or two (no armor though! But your Gandalf-wizard-with-a-sword-type could be this guy instead of a full blown "Swordmage").-Evoker/Elementalist: though I am not a fan of the "Blaster mage" and think there's a lot more to having a magic-using character than this, I know it is a HUGE fan-favorite to simply be a wizard/use spells to make things go boom. So, number 10, last one, here you go.-------------Sorcerer "Origins" ("Heritages" just doesn't sit well with me)-Dragon-Arcane-ElementalWarlock "Pacts"-Diabolic/Infernal-Fey-Celestial: though I STRONGLY disagree with the flavor that good (or even neutral) patrons would exist, a case can be made, I suppose, and the precedent is established <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /> so there it is. Wouldn't/won't find them in my game.Druid "Circles" -Beastmaster: animal companion/summoner/charmer-Wildshaper: shape shifting specialist-"Warden": heavy warrior [less magic] druidBard "Colleges" -may also choose from any "Big 4" class options-Skald: heavy warrior bard-Loremaster: knowledge and magic-heavy bard-Wanderer: explorer/skill heavy bardAssassin "Techniques" -may also choose from Fighter or Rogue options-Poisoner-Shadow-walker/-caster-StranglerRanger "Squads" -may also choose from Fighter or Druid options-Beastmaster: like the druid but without the summoning spells (or very MINOR summoning abilities, like being able to call upon whatever's in the area, not "*POOF* here's a creature to fight for you under your control").-"X-Adept": minor magic spell use: choose Arcane or Druid-"X-Slayer": tracking, attack, damage, possibly defense bonuses against X, where X = Dragons, Giants, Demons, Orcs, Goblinoids, etc...Paladin "Orders" -may also choose from Fighter or Cleric options-Crusader: Paladin with a cause or ideal, not necessarily a deity/religious base. Maybe some kind of "favored enemy-lite" against those he is crusading?-Honor and/or Valor: a lil' samurai-ish, a lil' cavalier-ish-Justicar: roving judge, jury and executioner (which I suppose all paladins are to some extent, but this guy's a league all his own).Monk "Vows" -may also choose from Rogue or Cleric options.-Ninja: get ninja tricks-Mystic: get mental/psionic/astral tricks-Ki-Warrior: get super-mega-kung-fu grip tricks.Is that everyone? Oh wait! ummmm....Psion "Disciplines"-Telepath-Telekinetic-Psychic Warrior: more armor, more weapons, Jedi-ish.Did I miss anything that [I think] could/should/would be in the 5e PHB?You  might notice that "caster classes" (including the Psion) do not get to choose from any other list but their own. Somehow, this makes sense to me though I doubt I could explain/justify it in "crunchy/number bits." Maybe someone else a bit more concerned with that sorta thing can.--SD</blockquote>

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