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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tlantl" data-source="post: 5892508" data-attributes="member: 55225">I really think that if the cleric is going to have spells that increase their combat ability so that it is comparable to the fighter then they are too powerful. If a cleric can routinely buff themselves in combat to be more effective then they should be on par with the rogue before taking advantage of their combat increase spells. If the power level of a class is easily increased to the point where they are arguably better than the class that is designed to be the best in combat then the design team failed to make that class stand out in it's particular niche. If the fighter becomes second fiddle to the cleric because of the cleric's ability to use his spells then the cleric is too strong. If the druid is able to drag along another combatant to double it's combat effectiveness and can increase her ability ( and that of the creature she commands) to fight to levels above the fighter then it's too strong. I really think that the cleric should either lose all of it's ability to buff in a fight or lose the ability to use those buffs on themselves.Perhaps it's best to return the cleric to the role of party healer and remove all of the cool from the class. There's no need for a group to force a player to take the cleric as a character for the purpose of group healing, they merely need to hire a henchman or add an npc cleric to the party to be played by the dungeon master. I do it all the time so players can choose other options.</blockquote>

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