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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 5216359" data-attributes="member: 2205">Yes, and it's just wrong.  Why do you keep saying something that's so obviously wrong?  I've given you the example of PCs and you keep saying that you think that PC's are "different" somehow; that just because PCs can do it, doesn't mean NPCs can.  In fact, you seem to be insisting that they can't.That is a patently and obviously nonsensical thing to say. It's just flat out wrong in inanely obvious fashion.  It's the equivalent of saying that grass on earth tends to be purple and the sky tends to drip blood.  IF THE PCs CAN DO IT, THEN SO CAN AN NPC.  Otherwise, NPCs wouldn't be able to have PC classes at all.If liches can exist in the campaign setting at all, THEN AN NPC CAN BECOME ONE.  You keep insisting that this is impossible.  Your insistence, then precludes the very existance of liches.I don't think that's really the argument you're trying to make, but you keep inventing nonexistant caveats and restrictions that lead to that conclusion.Again... none of those are changed, because none of them were defined.  A few sentences of backstory does not define attributes, class or much of anything else.  Your continued insistence that this is a change when it, in fact, is nothing of the sort, is another example of your stubborn wrongheadedness.Please... if we're going to have an intelligent discussion about this issue, QUIT MAKING STUFF UP ABOUT IT and then insisting that what YOU MADE UP must be true.  It simply isn't the case that just because you say something over and over again it's true.Of course I'm not understanding it!  It's nonsensical!  There you go making stuff up again.  Every other ambitious mage in the land?  So; again, liches can't actually exist in D&D then?  Characters can't actually advance, then?Seriously, think through these ridiculous claims before you make them.  Shooting holes in your arguments are like shooting fish in a barrel.  I'd like to have a more substantive conversation about this instead of be stuck pointing out the incredibly obvious holes in your argument that anyone even passingly familiar with D&D should be able to see through.OF COURSE I THINK THAT!  There are rules, right there for anyone to read in just the first few pages of the PHB that describe exactly how that happens.  That's happened in every single campaign of D&D that I've ever heard of that ran that long.  If PCs can do it, then OF COURSE ITS POSSIBLE TO DO and your continued insistence that its impossible is.... just... gah!  So ridiculous!So what? Irrelevant.  For every mom that becomes a lich, 100 other moms die trying.  OK.  Whoop-de-doo.  No relevance whatsoever to our discussion right now.That's not true either.  There's no correllation whatsoever between level and fame.  Most D&D PCs are doing their thing in dungeons, not population centers.  Plus, if you were trying to become a lich, don't you think just a little bit of discretion might be a good idea?Again, with the totally unjustified and made up restrictions.  Seriously, cut that out.</blockquote>

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