Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How much control do DMs need?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8993275" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, there was a whole kind of an evolution that happened. Roughly speaking, and I'm sure there are other 'threads' that existed, you had the original 'Kriegsspiel' which was simply TT miniatures wargaming in essence. That was proposed as a way of training officers in Prussia, but it proved to be too inflexible and evolved into 'Free' Kriegsspiel in which the referee went from simply adjudicating 'fog of war' to making judgments about outcomes and capabilities of the various forces. This allowed the players to 'try anything', and these games were elaborated to produce entire large scale general staff/officer corps operational training. </p><p></p><p>This type of training and 'wargaming' of possible situations became standard fare, especially after 1872 when the Prussians demonstrated just how far ahead their officer corps was in its ability to execute war plans. Dave Wesely introduced Arneson to a generalized form of this, the so-called 'Braunstein' in the late '60s. Arneson then ran some of these scenarios, which were very similar to LARPing in a sense, as they were live action scenarios, though not necessarily acted out, but role played physically. </p><p></p><p>Later one of the other people involved created a 'Braunstein' that was centered on playing Wild West scenarios, and Arneson basically took that and fused it with rules being used by the Castles & Crusades Society (Chainmail being part of that) to make Blackmoor. It was all a bunch of the same people, and undoubtedly the ideas were not all from one person. Dave apparently did develop the mechanics however, and things like leveling, and his game was the first that was distinctly table top and wargame-like. The earlier Braunsteins didn't use table tops, and didn't have recurring characters, which the Wild West 'Brownstone' had introduced. So, Dave's game is the first one with all the elements.</p><p></p><p>As for his ability as a game designer, how many people have made a career of that? He did, at least to a degree. He did author a number of wargames prior to the development of D&D, and some of the elements of at least one of those (Hit Points and Armor Class) made it into D&D as well. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunstein_(game)" target="_blank">Braunstein (game) - Wikipedia</a> is a pretty good, if sparse, description of the overall history of that evolution.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8993275, member: 82106"] Well, there was a whole kind of an evolution that happened. Roughly speaking, and I'm sure there are other 'threads' that existed, you had the original 'Kriegsspiel' which was simply TT miniatures wargaming in essence. That was proposed as a way of training officers in Prussia, but it proved to be too inflexible and evolved into 'Free' Kriegsspiel in which the referee went from simply adjudicating 'fog of war' to making judgments about outcomes and capabilities of the various forces. This allowed the players to 'try anything', and these games were elaborated to produce entire large scale general staff/officer corps operational training. This type of training and 'wargaming' of possible situations became standard fare, especially after 1872 when the Prussians demonstrated just how far ahead their officer corps was in its ability to execute war plans. Dave Wesely introduced Arneson to a generalized form of this, the so-called 'Braunstein' in the late '60s. Arneson then ran some of these scenarios, which were very similar to LARPing in a sense, as they were live action scenarios, though not necessarily acted out, but role played physically. Later one of the other people involved created a 'Braunstein' that was centered on playing Wild West scenarios, and Arneson basically took that and fused it with rules being used by the Castles & Crusades Society (Chainmail being part of that) to make Blackmoor. It was all a bunch of the same people, and undoubtedly the ideas were not all from one person. Dave apparently did develop the mechanics however, and things like leveling, and his game was the first that was distinctly table top and wargame-like. The earlier Braunsteins didn't use table tops, and didn't have recurring characters, which the Wild West 'Brownstone' had introduced. So, Dave's game is the first one with all the elements. As for his ability as a game designer, how many people have made a career of that? He did, at least to a degree. He did author a number of wargames prior to the development of D&D, and some of the elements of at least one of those (Hit Points and Armor Class) made it into D&D as well. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunstein_(game)"]Braunstein (game) - Wikipedia[/URL] is a pretty good, if sparse, description of the overall history of that evolution. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How much control do DMs need?
Top