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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8993839" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>IMHO Messerspiel is just about exactly like my 'blank PbtA' example, it is technically a playable PROCESS, but it won't do much for you as a game. You will want to add specific elements. Heck, the core rules even hint at where you would focus that effort first! For example: there is a rule &quot;add a die when you are trained&quot; which kind of begs us to elaborate on what sorts of training might exist, how to obtain them, etc. Likewise you can be an 'expert' and get another die (presumably expertise is CUMULATIVE with training, but that's not actually spelled out). I don't believe that adding more 'roll one die if' conditions would be creating a new game, nor adding elaborations on what training/expertise are possible, nor would elaborating on what bad, mixed, or good outcomes entail. Clearly the game might potentially benefit from including the rules for Position and Effect from FitD as well (an obvious one). None of these things would alter any of what is there already, but they would allow for more reliable adjudication, for example. One could also clearly elaborate on the process in some other respects, such as introducing some sort of recovery mechanics. Again, I don't think any of this stops your game from being 'Messerspiel' any more than adding a move to your PbtA game makes it a whole new game.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8993839, member: 82106"] IMHO Messerspiel is just about exactly like my 'blank PbtA' example, it is technically a playable PROCESS, but it won't do much for you as a game. You will want to add specific elements. Heck, the core rules even hint at where you would focus that effort first! For example: there is a rule "add a die when you are trained" which kind of begs us to elaborate on what sorts of training might exist, how to obtain them, etc. Likewise you can be an 'expert' and get another die (presumably expertise is CUMULATIVE with training, but that's not actually spelled out). I don't believe that adding more 'roll one die if' conditions would be creating a new game, nor adding elaborations on what training/expertise are possible, nor would elaborating on what bad, mixed, or good outcomes entail. Clearly the game might potentially benefit from including the rules for Position and Effect from FitD as well (an obvious one). None of these things would alter any of what is there already, but they would allow for more reliable adjudication, for example. One could also clearly elaborate on the process in some other respects, such as introducing some sort of recovery mechanics. Again, I don't think any of this stops your game from being 'Messerspiel' any more than adding a move to your PbtA game makes it a whole new game. [/QUOTE]

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