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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8995277" data-attributes="member: 71699">Or perhaps desirable better gets at it.I've been thinking that one might say it's technically objective, on the grounds that it's external to the subject (the player.)I'd really like to recommend Ironsworn to you. It provides a perfect example of how the product of one's own imagination can be an object of discovery. (Which is, I think, what you are saying.) The way that oracles are used to prompt the player's imagination in directions they might not otherwise have considered helps to see really clearly how that can work. It is best played in small groups or solo.EDIT Ideally each side steelmans the other's position. So "an objective fictional reality" is accepted, and so is "learning what someone else has imagined." I've explained why I think objective is right, above. And raised a question about learning what someone else has imagined, in my next post.I'm not yet sure if that's required or not. Suppose we gave the GM total control over all mechanics, but divided out authorship of fiction? Or, I guess, the converse! I've assayed a few designs in such directions and it seems that the two aren't welded together. There's more a list of things that can be controlled, and one can choose who controls each of those things.To give a sense of some options<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">establishing which mechanics are used</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">invoking mechanics</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">proposing inputs to mechanics / approving inputs to mechanics</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">establishing facts about creatures (here I use creatures very broadly, to include NPCs)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">saying what creatures do / saying what hostile creatures do</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">establishing facts about the world such as landscape, landmarks, season</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">saying how it changes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">establishing facts about the characters (The Elusive Shift has a thought-provoking example of Costikyan's tongue-in-cheek take on that)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">saying what the characters do</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">establishing facts about the metaphysics (e.g. about magic)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">invoking metaphysics</li> </ul>That might not be complete. It's been robustly demonstrated in the last few decades that the ways control can be successfully allocated is far more flexible than many supposed in the first few decades of TTRPG. However, the question remains: can one effectively create that which one does not control? Or where one does not have control? A player could establish the existence of a cult, and a GM could then control that cult (or the converse.) As one example.</blockquote>

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