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<blockquote data-quote="Enrahim2" data-source="post: 8999290" data-attributes="member: 7039850">First let me say, I love your questions! They are really thought provoking. Next I have to admit you here mention 3 games I actually haven't read either of (Something that surprises me!). It also surprises me that classic traveler do not have rule 0. Torchbearer have burningwheel roots as far as I understand, so I assume it has similar generalised reward-resolution say yes or roll the dice philosophy?In either case I suspect the following diversity of experience is hard to get in a non rule zero game:Starts out with a classic dungeon crawl - fully predetermined location with random monsters. Then the party find the Crown of reality command, an artifact with the following property: The wearer take complete control over any aspects of their universe for 5 minutes before the crown teleports to a random location i the multiverse. For 5 minutes the player with a an narate whatever they want to happen during that time, and it will be true. However before using it, the players get to learn that for the next 5 minutes after that, reality will flex back, causing the DM to take full controll over what happens, including the actions of all player characters.The players decide to use it after leaving the dungeon, chaos ensues, and then the game enters a collaborative roleplaying pattern where any player can come with suggestions what happens next, needing a majority vote with DM having veto.I can easily see the above scenario play out as described in D&amp;D in a single session. I think it breaks absolutely every principle of &quot;player protection&quot; in burning wheel at least. I also assume you agree it is an extreme range of gaming experiences involved, from static player explore DM content, to full dictation by a player to a purest thinkable DM railroad to a clearly asymmetric collaborative experience.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Enrahim2, post: 8999290, member: 7039850"] First let me say, I love your questions! They are really thought provoking. Next I have to admit you here mention 3 games I actually haven't read either of (Something that surprises me!). It also surprises me that classic traveler do not have rule 0. Torchbearer have burningwheel roots as far as I understand, so I assume it has similar generalised reward-resolution say yes or roll the dice philosophy? In either case I suspect the following diversity of experience is hard to get in a non rule zero game: Starts out with a classic dungeon crawl - fully predetermined location with random monsters. Then the party find the Crown of reality command, an artifact with the following property: The wearer take complete control over any aspects of their universe for 5 minutes before the crown teleports to a random location i the multiverse. For 5 minutes the player with a an narate whatever they want to happen during that time, and it will be true. However before using it, the players get to learn that for the next 5 minutes after that, reality will flex back, causing the DM to take full controll over what happens, including the actions of all player characters. The players decide to use it after leaving the dungeon, chaos ensues, and then the game enters a collaborative roleplaying pattern where any player can come with suggestions what happens next, needing a majority vote with DM having veto. I can easily see the above scenario play out as described in D&D in a single session. I think it breaks absolutely every principle of "player protection" in burning wheel at least. I also assume you agree it is an extreme range of gaming experiences involved, from static player explore DM content, to full dictation by a player to a purest thinkable DM railroad to a clearly asymmetric collaborative experience. [/QUOTE]

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