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How much control do DMs need?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8999709" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I don't see any handwavium here. This is how DW moves work. All moves must follow from the fiction. Admittedly, I may have gotten carried away with flowery language (because I <em>never ever</em> do that around here, yeah? Hah!) but the trigger phrase seems solid enough to me.</p><p></p><p>A magical solution is a spell. I had figured that was obvious, given the lines "The <strong>spell</strong> does not take a long time to cast" and "It's always possible to improve a <strong>spell</strong> you've designed through <em>Hit the Spellbooks</em>" (bolding added) and the fact that it's called "<em>Hit the <strong>Spell</strong>books</em>." Does it really have to be so pedantic? I like colorful, evocative text.</p><p></p><p>I just wanted to play up the fantasy of it. Is this really such a big deal? If it troubles you so, just replace the whole trigger phrase with the lifelessly barebones "when <strong>you spend time designing a spell</strong>." I genuinely don't understand why the wording I used is such a horror.</p><p></p><p>This is Dungeon World. You must, <em>in the fiction,</em> already have a conundrum you need to solve in order to try to solve one. That's just how the system works. If you've played Monster of the Week, I cannot believe it does not have a similar "start and end with the fiction" requirement.</p><p></p><p>You can cast it like any other spell...so you'd use the Cast a Spell move if it is one of the spells you currently have access to, and if it isn't, you could prepare it by whatever move you use to do that. Given how I wrote this, it is for Wizard(-like) characters whose magic comes from study. I would do something else for someone whose spells were rooted in the Cleric playbook (or any other spellcaster concept that wasn't built around academia.)</p><p></p><p>The limits are (a) what you don't choose from the list, and (b) what seems reasonable, as judged by the GM and the group. Same as the official Ritual move which the DW Wizard possesses:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If that's okay, what is wrong with the move I proposed?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Then I'm not really sure why things need to be so legalistic.</p><p></p><p></p><p>....yes. Because that's literally what I was doing with it. As I explicitly said I was going to do in the post where I wrote it. I explicitly said <em>Dungeon World</em> lacks for a certain move that feels like it would make sense to exist as a move (spell research), so I would demonstrate that <em>Dungeon World</em> is flexible by doing it and timing myself.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There may be a mixup here. I said 14 <em>minutes.</em> But yes, I would 100% expect it to take more time. That was the whole point of timing it! And this move, purely by existing, now makes <em>any new spell</em> something that can be at least <em>initiated,</em> in the rules, with full and appropriate move-based consequences and drawbacks. N matter what you do, nor how well you roll, you cannot avoid choosing at least one of the drawbacks: casting time, expense, imprecision, or side effects. Only by then making an <em>adventure</em> out of improving it could you possibly make all the flaws go away, because you would need secret knowledge, special tools, or the aid of someone else who is unlikely to offer that aid without cost.</p><p></p><p>It helps make the world fantastic, fills a character's life with adventure, and in being rolled and open-ended, <em>requires</em> that both sides play to find out what happens. It follows the Agendas, and thus, if used according to the Principles, is a perfectly valid move. It might need a little bit of playtesting (perhaps one or more restrictions are auto-picks or too easily skipped), but that would be slight refinement over time, not "this is flatly unworkable."</p><p></p><p>I genuinely don't understand why you're bringing up all the "this requires other text." Of course it does! I never said or even implied otherwise. If you were going to invent rules for how a Wizard could research brand-new spells on their own in D&D—<em>any</em> edition thereof—those rules would take forever to make <em>even for the first draft</em> and be frightfully complex by comparison. That was my core point here.</p><p></p><p></p><p>See above. And, as noted, 14 (nearly 15) <em>minutes,</em> not seconds. I'm not THAT fast.</p><p></p><p>I guarantee you that designing a "build your own spells" rule for literally any edition of D&D (even the one I like best!) would take ages and ages to write, be dramatically more complex, and outright <em>require</em> extensive playtesting before it could be put into use, long before any of the minor-tweaking refinement I mentioned above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8999709, member: 6790260"] I don't see any handwavium here. This is how DW moves work. All moves must follow from the fiction. Admittedly, I may have gotten carried away with flowery language (because I [I]never ever[/I] do that around here, yeah? Hah!) but the trigger phrase seems solid enough to me. A magical solution is a spell. I had figured that was obvious, given the lines "The [B]spell[/B] does not take a long time to cast" and "It's always possible to improve a [B]spell[/B] you've designed through [I]Hit the Spellbooks[/I]" (bolding added) and the fact that it's called "[I]Hit the [B]Spell[/B]books[/I]." Does it really have to be so pedantic? I like colorful, evocative text. I just wanted to play up the fantasy of it. Is this really such a big deal? If it troubles you so, just replace the whole trigger phrase with the lifelessly barebones "when [B]you spend time designing a spell[/B]." I genuinely don't understand why the wording I used is such a horror. This is Dungeon World. You must, [I]in the fiction,[/I] already have a conundrum you need to solve in order to try to solve one. That's just how the system works. If you've played Monster of the Week, I cannot believe it does not have a similar "start and end with the fiction" requirement. You can cast it like any other spell...so you'd use the Cast a Spell move if it is one of the spells you currently have access to, and if it isn't, you could prepare it by whatever move you use to do that. Given how I wrote this, it is for Wizard(-like) characters whose magic comes from study. I would do something else for someone whose spells were rooted in the Cleric playbook (or any other spellcaster concept that wasn't built around academia.) The limits are (a) what you don't choose from the list, and (b) what seems reasonable, as judged by the GM and the group. Same as the official Ritual move which the DW Wizard possesses: If that's okay, what is wrong with the move I proposed? Then I'm not really sure why things need to be so legalistic. ....yes. Because that's literally what I was doing with it. As I explicitly said I was going to do in the post where I wrote it. I explicitly said [I]Dungeon World[/I] lacks for a certain move that feels like it would make sense to exist as a move (spell research), so I would demonstrate that [I]Dungeon World[/I] is flexible by doing it and timing myself. There may be a mixup here. I said 14 [I]minutes.[/I] But yes, I would 100% expect it to take more time. That was the whole point of timing it! And this move, purely by existing, now makes [I]any new spell[/I] something that can be at least [I]initiated,[/I] in the rules, with full and appropriate move-based consequences and drawbacks. N matter what you do, nor how well you roll, you cannot avoid choosing at least one of the drawbacks: casting time, expense, imprecision, or side effects. Only by then making an [I]adventure[/I] out of improving it could you possibly make all the flaws go away, because you would need secret knowledge, special tools, or the aid of someone else who is unlikely to offer that aid without cost. It helps make the world fantastic, fills a character's life with adventure, and in being rolled and open-ended, [I]requires[/I] that both sides play to find out what happens. It follows the Agendas, and thus, if used according to the Principles, is a perfectly valid move. It might need a little bit of playtesting (perhaps one or more restrictions are auto-picks or too easily skipped), but that would be slight refinement over time, not "this is flatly unworkable." I genuinely don't understand why you're bringing up all the "this requires other text." Of course it does! I never said or even implied otherwise. If you were going to invent rules for how a Wizard could research brand-new spells on their own in D&D—[I]any[/I] edition thereof—those rules would take forever to make [I]even for the first draft[/I] and be frightfully complex by comparison. That was my core point here. See above. And, as noted, 14 (nearly 15) [I]minutes,[/I] not seconds. I'm not THAT fast. I guarantee you that designing a "build your own spells" rule for literally any edition of D&D (even the one I like best!) would take ages and ages to write, be dramatically more complex, and outright [I]require[/I] extensive playtesting before it could be put into use, long before any of the minor-tweaking refinement I mentioned above. [/QUOTE]
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