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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9003026" data-attributes="member: 82106">You can down load this stuff yourself man, its not that hard to find! Here for instance some of Dalluhn are reproduced <a href="http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-dalluhn-manuscript-in-detail-and-on.html" target="_blank">The Dalluhn Manuscript: In Detail and On Display</a> There's even a paper about it written by Peterson. <a href="https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1454/51/1454516675578.pdf" target="_blank">https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1454/51/1454516675578.pdf</a> None of this stuff is some secret! As I said, the EXISTENCE OF THESE THINGS demonstrates my position, that Dave Arneson CERTAINLY valued the codification of rules! Now, he may also have felt that some things can be left to judgment, and whether or not you want to spin that into 'invisible rulebooks' or whatever is really your business. Frankly, being a wargamer and then TTRPGer in that era I can tell you there was little of that sort of sentiment floating around. The attitude was &quot;give us more material that we can use to do stuff with.&quot; GARY most certainly never discouraged that attitude in any way. He was quite vocal about the need to codify game play and establish best practices, etc. as exemplified in his writing in the DMG on the subject. What more needs to be said? Never is there a hint in any early D&amp;D product, or pre-product that I am aware of, stating that it would be better to leave more things up to the referee or that there shouldn't be rules for things like, say, climbing, falling, hiding, parleying, hiring people, etc. all of which appear in AD&amp;D and most of which were published in some form by TSR in the period 1974-1978.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9003026, member: 82106"] You can down load this stuff yourself man, its not that hard to find! Here for instance some of Dalluhn are reproduced [URL="http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-dalluhn-manuscript-in-detail-and-on.html"]The Dalluhn Manuscript: In Detail and On Display[/URL] There's even a paper about it written by Peterson. [URL]https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1454/51/1454516675578.pdf[/URL] None of this stuff is some secret! As I said, the EXISTENCE OF THESE THINGS demonstrates my position, that Dave Arneson CERTAINLY valued the codification of rules! Now, he may also have felt that some things can be left to judgment, and whether or not you want to spin that into 'invisible rulebooks' or whatever is really your business. Frankly, being a wargamer and then TTRPGer in that era I can tell you there was little of that sort of sentiment floating around. The attitude was "give us more material that we can use to do stuff with." GARY most certainly never discouraged that attitude in any way. He was quite vocal about the need to codify game play and establish best practices, etc. as exemplified in his writing in the DMG on the subject. What more needs to be said? Never is there a hint in any early D&D product, or pre-product that I am aware of, stating that it would be better to leave more things up to the referee or that there shouldn't be rules for things like, say, climbing, falling, hiding, parleying, hiring people, etc. all of which appear in AD&D and most of which were published in some form by TSR in the period 1974-1978. [/QUOTE]

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