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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 9003276" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I've never said rules don't matter.&nbsp; I'm saying people choose whether they follow the rules or not.&nbsp; When I was playing nuclear Risk we obviously changed the rules of the game but we weren't concerned about Hasbro sending someone to our house to enforce the rules.How this ties back to the OP is that how much control the DM needs is simply up to the group.&nbsp; The suggestions in the D&amp;D are that the DM makes the final call and is by default the person who builds the world, although they also discuss plenty of options.&nbsp; They also repeatedly state that the DM should be reasonable, that one of the main reasons we have a DM in D&amp;D is to keep the game flowing.If you only have vague rules about consequences, i.e. falling in FATE, you don't need it specifically stated that the GM makes the call.&nbsp; It's built into the game that the GM decides what happens.&nbsp; Since the results are so open ended it's just kind of assumed that the GM is being fair.&nbsp; If you have a situation in D&amp;D that the rules cover, i.e. falling damage, you have a specific rule that the entire group understands.&nbsp; But what if a rock falls on the PC?&nbsp; Well, there are guidelines for this kind of stuff in the DMG but it really comes down to the DM's call.&nbsp; Do they take damage? How much?&nbsp; Are they pinned under the rocks and if so are they restrained or just effectively grappled?&nbsp; How can they escape?&nbsp; In both D&amp;D and FATE the GM makes a call.&nbsp; In the former there are some concrete rules that everyone knows but if there are no established rules it's up to the DM, in FATE it's always up to the GM with guidelines.&nbsp; That is how they're the same.There's a lot of focus on &quot;these games are completely different because the rules of the game differ on how the character interacts with and affects the world around them&quot;.&nbsp; I'm just musing on how they're the same.&nbsp; It's a different experience if I get to work in a train, subway or bus. But in all cases I leave my house and enter a vehicular conveyance that takes me where I need to go.&nbsp; Talking about how things are the same is just as important to me as how they are different.&nbsp; In all the RPGs discussed, we're just playing structured pretend controlling a fictional character.&nbsp; Someone has a role inP.S. As always, please correct me if my understanding is incorrect or I'm saying something wrong.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 9003276, member: 6801845"] I've never said rules don't matter. I'm saying people choose whether they follow the rules or not. When I was playing nuclear Risk we obviously changed the rules of the game but we weren't concerned about Hasbro sending someone to our house to enforce the rules. How this ties back to the OP is that how much control the DM needs is simply up to the group. The suggestions in the D&D are that the DM makes the final call and is by default the person who builds the world, although they also discuss plenty of options. They also repeatedly state that the DM should be reasonable, that one of the main reasons we have a DM in D&D is to keep the game flowing. If you only have vague rules about consequences, i.e. falling in FATE, you don't need it specifically stated that the GM makes the call. It's built into the game that the GM decides what happens. Since the results are so open ended it's just kind of assumed that the GM is being fair. If you have a situation in D&D that the rules cover, i.e. falling damage, you have a specific rule that the entire group understands. But what if a rock falls on the PC? Well, there are guidelines for this kind of stuff in the DMG but it really comes down to the DM's call. Do they take damage? How much? Are they pinned under the rocks and if so are they restrained or just effectively grappled? How can they escape? In both D&D and FATE the GM makes a call. In the former there are some concrete rules that everyone knows but if there are no established rules it's up to the DM, in FATE it's always up to the GM with guidelines. [I]That [/I]is how they're the same. There's a lot of focus on "these games are completely different because the rules of the game differ on how the character interacts with and affects the world around them". I'm just musing on how they're the same. It's a different experience if I get to work in a train, subway or bus. But in all cases I leave my house and enter a vehicular conveyance that takes me where I need to go. Talking about how things are the same is just as important to me as how they are different. In all the RPGs discussed, we're just playing structured pretend controlling a fictional character. Someone has a role in P.S. As always, please correct me if my understanding is incorrect or I'm saying something wrong. [/QUOTE]

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