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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9007870" data-attributes="member: 71699">I feel like the point is closer to &quot;what counts as legitimate to say next.&quot; You have a purpose in mind which seems something like &quot;create gameplay or provide colour for the players&quot;. An immersionist purpose prioritises the &quot;portray a rich world&quot; over &quot;punctuate their lives with adventure&quot;. Both can satisfy &quot;play to find out what happens.&quot;The tree that falls in the forest can be an imagined fact that is external to the players, thus it is an objective fact from their point of view. The citadel of Trilus is like that in Glorantha. It's of no consequence if players know about it or not: it's an established fact.Perhaps another facet of immersionist mode is that there is intended to be one or more participants who individually establish facts that are objective from the point of view of other participants. Part of their play is to establish those facts. The play of others explores those facts incompletely. Asymmetrical roles.The satisfaction of inhabiting a world that isn't all about my character. There is also a sort of latency in those established facts that makes the world for me feel richer. A hidden fact may inform another hidden fact that may inform something we find out in our play.It's possible to take a shortcut or even backcast (find out X in your play, and extrapolate hidden facts from it... &quot;If the Queen is really the half-sister of Q, why that means she must be the daughter of... !&quot;) It's not really all or nothing, but some modes will prefer more shortcuts and backcasts for the reasons you outline, and other modes will find those potentially suspension-of-disbelief breaking. There's may be some consistency concerns, too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9007870, member: 71699"] I feel like the point is closer to "what counts as [I]legitimate [/I]to say next." You have a purpose in mind which seems something like "create gameplay or provide colour [I]for the players[/I]". An immersionist purpose prioritises the "portray a rich world" over "punctuate their lives with adventure". Both can satisfy "play to find out what happens." The tree that falls in the forest can be an imagined fact that is external to the players, thus it is an objective fact from their point of view. The citadel of Trilus is like that in Glorantha. It's of no consequence if players know about it or not: it's an established fact. Perhaps another facet of immersionist mode is that there is [I]intended [/I]to be one or more participants who individually establish facts that are objective from the point of view of other participants. Part of their [I]play[/I] is to establish those facts. The play of others explores those facts incompletely. Asymmetrical roles. The satisfaction of inhabiting a world that [I]isn't[/I] all about my character. There is also a sort of latency in those established facts that makes the world for me feel richer. A hidden fact may inform another hidden fact that may inform something we find out in our play. It's possible to take a shortcut or even backcast (find out X in your play, and extrapolate hidden facts from it... "If the Queen is really the half-sister of Q, why that means she must be the daughter of... !") It's not really all or nothing, but some modes will prefer more shortcuts and backcasts for the reasons you outline, and other modes will find those potentially suspension-of-disbelief breaking. There's may be some consistency concerns, too. [/QUOTE]

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