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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgbrowning" data-source="post: 1541420" data-attributes="member: 5724">I'm saying the definition of "sense" varies from person to person, from location to location, and from time period to time period. What makes sense cost-wise for a structure in 1190 is very different than what makes sense cost-wise for a structure in 1325, even if it's in exactly the same place.Generally (read the rest of the post for further explination) I don't think these two goals are compatable. One goal is high adventure, the other is fairly precise setting creation for a supossedly setting-neutral fantasy adventure game.The prices have been compiled with a little thought and care. The intent behind that compiling is what you disagree with. The prices are compiled with only PC interactions in mind. To compile prices outside of this goal would mean additional time spent on a matter that has little to no consequences for the majority of gamers. If it's under 10gp in cost, once past 1st level it's probably not going to matter much to any player. If it does for your group, you're playing a rare breed of D&D.Again, I don't think you can really serve both groups, especially when you are forced to examine the fiscal ramifications of magic. Once you have a "realistic" medieval pricing system, you'll have to then have a "realistic" interpretation of what magic would do to that. Plant growth itself is going to dramtically change your grain-to-labor ratio's. And then factor in all the changes cheaper/more plentiful grain creates and pretty soon you're going to have to "rationally" create a fiscal system that takes into account things that are utterly irrational, unpredicable, and unrealistic. And on top of that everyone has their own interpretation of what magic would do to a real society: me included.Again, what is right? I'm not sure if I'm communicating this properly, but the price of grain itself varies massively over the entire European continent and throughout the entire medieval time period. Also, just because "medieval wheat cost X amount of silver per quarter and an amount of labor generates this much silver at X location at X time" doesn't mean that D&D wheat/silver/labor has to follow any of those relationships. And on top of all that, don't forget magic. I don't expect a truely medieval price listing in a world where magic is as common as postulated in the core rules.This is the logical error. You can make prices that fit what you think is right. You can't make right prices because it's your assumptions, generalizations, and the presence (and how much of a presence) of magic that will cause error. Perhaps even error on the same level as in the core prices already, just different.The question, "What's the price for a gallon of gas?" illustrates my point. Before you can give me a price you're going to have to ask me, "Where, over what period of time, and what was inflation like?" Your prices, although based upon a set of assumptions of time period and location, may be just as faulty for another time period and location as the D&D prices seem to you. Any price range, time range, and location range chosen is just another assumption- it'll be one that suits you better, but it may not be of any material improvement to anyone else.If there were no prices, someone would want to know them. This is the desire, I'm assuming, that leads to Kenzer's product. Most people don't want to have to discuss these issues of pricing for item that cost less than 10gp--they'd rather just look at a book because it's "good enough." Your definition of "good enough" is different than the majority of gamers.This is also, if I'm understanding correctly, the idea behind a "wealth" system. It does just what you suggest: effectively removing prices.You actually wouldn't be serving "both" markets because you'd be only serving one market (the average D&Der)+ the one market you based your prices off of (say medieval england in 1350). It will be an improvement for your particular desires in gaming, but that doesn't mean it's an improvement in gaming for anyone who wants to play outside of england in the 1350's. In fact, it may be more of a detriment for people who have your style of play (detailed world building aspects based upon history) but prefer Italy in 1210 than the simple, bad, base D&D prices we have right now.First off, you'd absolutely have to ditch the 10/10/10 ratio of copper/silver/gold. But even simply altering that easy ratio to more suit reality would be less beneficial to more people's playing style than it would be to have a chicken be too cheap, a laborer's wage too low, and for wheat to be too expensive. I don't think changes to the basic prices do more than marginally better the game, if that. I think they would be simply concentrating on one historical aspect while potentially being at greater odds with other aspects. You can make realistic prices (again according to what location and over what period of time you want), but I don't think you can make realistic prices and have the desired level of simplicity that most player's are looking for. It's a matter of world-building vers. role-playing. If you're worried about your players having issues with the prices, just make up your own list of prices and tell them this is what things cost in your world. The issue is then solved from a role-playing perspective and you've customized your campaign world at the same time.I hope my basic arguement (what time and what place) is coming though all of these paragraphs. Given some thought, it's not that difficult to imagine situations where the prices listed in the core rules are not that off. Given differences in material availablity in a make-believe world (which, realistically, there is no reason to assume that the material availability in the D&D worlds are in any form or fashion comparable to medieval england/europe to begin with) and because there's also magic in the world, I think pretty much anything is just a handwave away from being explained good enough for the vast majority of gamers.I like history, I like writing history into my game. I've written a very good book about mixing medieval european flavor into an average d20 game. I just don't think there's any need to adjust base prices that players rarely, if ever, interact with. I do have an economic simulator in MMS:WE (which just recently got used in Bad Axe's Grim Tales thx Ben!) that gives a GM a lot more flexibility in pricing and helps create that local feel you're probably after.joe b.</blockquote>

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