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<blockquote data-quote="Pickles III" data-source="post: 6809037" data-attributes="member: 6793942">Alert also means you are never the surprised, which can be like winning initiative twice. It's also essentially proactive &amp; so more fun.The waste of melee attacks being a bigger deal is certainly true. Ranged is a bit too good in 5e with not suffering any real penalties &amp; doing the almost same damage as melee whilst all of the inherent advantages you get from fighting at range. Winning initiative is relevant with novaing, focus firing &amp; short combats. If a party of PCs can drop another PC in a round then in a mirror match always winning initiative would be worth a whole extra PC (except then the opposition would be effectively winning initiative so about half a PC).Always winning is about +12 to initiative <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> for about 10-12% extra value so about 1% per +. Which is less than I would have thought but more than a magic player would value&nbsp; working with. I don't think we are going to get a really good estimate as there are too many variable assumptions +1 initiative is worth between .05 and 2% :0I do have one friend who really values initiative &amp; going first - Improved initiative on high dex characters etc. He does not seem to value perception at all which occasionally means just super winning initiative by acting in the surprise round/when surprised.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pickles III, post: 6809037, member: 6793942"] Alert also means you are never the surprised, which can be like winning initiative twice. It's also essentially proactive & so more fun. The waste of melee attacks being a bigger deal is certainly true. Ranged is a bit too good in 5e with not suffering any real penalties & doing the almost same damage as melee whilst all of the inherent advantages you get from fighting at range. Winning initiative is relevant with novaing, focus firing & short combats. If a party of PCs can drop another PC in a round then in a mirror match always winning initiative would be worth a whole extra PC (except then the opposition would be effectively winning initiative so about half a PC). Always winning is about +12 to initiative ;) for about 10-12% extra value so about 1% per +. Which is less than I would have thought but more than a magic player would value working with. I don't think we are going to get a really good estimate as there are too many variable assumptions +1 initiative is worth between .05 and 2% :0 I do have one friend who really values initiative & going first - Improved initiative on high dex characters etc. He does not seem to value perception at all which occasionally means just super winning initiative by acting in the surprise round/when surprised. [/QUOTE]

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