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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 402187" data-attributes="member: 2358">It may *seem* generous, but in practice and in testing, it really isn't.  Fast healing really doesn't do as much as some people believe it does. UK hasn't posted his final version as of yet, or any full version, but he and I have debated it continually in the Immortal's Handbook topic.  I once thought fast healing was more powerful myself, until I listened to what he had to say, actually tested it, and found out otherwise.As for my listing, I have the most current version of my own system on my ECL thread.  Go on over and take a look, but be aware that it isn't perfect as of yet.  I'm still tweaking it.  At least it's there as a starting point for others interesting in doing something with it, though.Remember, ECL and CR are technically the same thing.  That may not be how the core rules use it, but it IS how UK and I use it.  Doing it any other way, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to create a system that works.  ECL and CR both mean the same thing.  Both are the measure of a creatures innate powers.  Neither take equiment into consideration, so equipment is not a factor.Like I said, if you try to have ECL and CR be different, you'll NEVER find anything that works.  Trust us, we know.  We've tried.  UK and have have, together put (I'm guessing) hundreds of hours into studying this particular subject.The basis of ECL and CR being the same is simple: PCs are, by default, stronger than NPCs of the same level.  As such, a creature with ECL as a PC will naturally have more power than a creature of the same level.  In testing, it works out perfectly, believe me.  ECL and CR are the same.  The only reason we still have ECL AND CR is because at higher levels, CR is lower than ECL because it takes more levels to gain power, and XP is still calculated by CR, taking the party's average level as average CR instead.Hope I cleared that issue up . . .The reason you can't calculate it is because you haven't yet come to the realization that ECL and CR are teh same.  Having overlapping abilities doesn't take away from ECL.  For instance, most fast healing is Extraordinary and thus is not stopped by an Antimagic Field, while healing spells and spell-like abilities are.You gotta take the sum of all powers, whether they overlap or not.  Go check out my ECL thread for details.Go over to my ECL thread, it's all there.  Most abilities are only ECL +1/4.  The system details all common things that are not.  DM discretion is necessary any which way, although I'm starting a huge list of ECLs/CRs for ALL monsters released thus far.  It'll be a slow process, but it'll be up eventually.</blockquote>

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