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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 410583" data-attributes="member: 2358">Hey, I'm just going by your most recently posted formula, which was:Level x Level x Level x Level x 5In other words:(ECL^4)*5You say this isn't your system, then fine.  You have already, however, stated that the new system gives MORE wealth as opposed to less.  You gotta cap that wealth, seriously.It really doesn't matter who created the items in the first place.  It may have been a weapons god who created a bunch of insanely powerful weapons and sent them to the planes, or it could have been some old immortal wizard, who cares?Okay, I'm gonna take this from another approach.  At higher levels, a majority of a character's power comes from wealth.  Take the equipment from the character, and the character ain't even half as useful.  A fighter without his sword can't do anything, nor can a wizard without his spellbook.  Fact is, as ECL goes up, the power of monsters goes up, and the power of the items PCs have with which they can combat those monsters also goes up.  By ECL 300, many things will have damage reduction upwards of 1000/+100!  Yet by your system, such a weapon simply can't exist!My point isn't that your system doesn't work at all . . . My point is that it, as ANY non-arithmatic formula, eventually breaks down for whatever reason . . . You said that you wanted a system that works at ALL levels, and I am giving you that system, at least for the most part.  I say use the numbers WotC gives you until Level 40, then it caps off with an arithmatic formula.  This formula works as well at Level 100 as it does at Level 10000!Now do you see my point?One small problem . . . You see, according to the rules, it costs deities as much to make items as it does for characters to make items . . . Money, XP, deities still have to pay all the costs.  If character's can't create such items, neither can deities.  Unless, of course, you made deities be able to pop items out of thin air!That's not the point.  Point is that the system eventually breaks down any which way you look at it.  Mine does not.  You are again using Rule 0 to take away from players.I understand, I just think that's a poor excuse for a reason to stop better items from existing.Actually, YES.  That's exactly what I'm saying.  The wealth my MY system covers equipment.  Perhaps we are not on the same page here.You advocate your numbers for total wealth including the intangibles, which although seems a bit silly to me, is actually stated in the ELH as well as other places.I, on the other hand, advocate my tables to be used for personal equipment only.Perhaps the real solution here is to use YOUR formula for total wealth while using MY formula to determine how much OF that wealth can be spent on equipment?That is precisely why I am bowing out of the ECL System race.  You are now the lone superpower for the ECL System.  If anything's broken, though, I'll nuke ya'.  I'll be watching. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />By the way, just how many monsters from the Monster Manual are so bad that they need to be changed?  I realize that a strong majority of them won't come out *exactly* the same by your ECL System, but most of them are off by so lilttle that it makes no difference.  Which ones are in serious need of changing?  (Besides the obvious ones like ALL dragons, Solars, Planetars, Tarrasque, and Titans . . .)On a side note, pay careful attention to the Ghaele (Eladrin) Celestial, it's more powerful than it looks.  It's actually more powerful than an Astral Deva!Funny . . . Smart@$$ . . . <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />That's not very nice.  I thought this was a friendly debate?  I may be passionate, but I haven't dissed anyone here.Again, not very nice.  What happened to the friendly debate?  I know I am strongly opinionated, but I haven't been dissing people.</blockquote>

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