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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8180263" data-attributes="member: 93670">INot as much of a point as is being made out as it is in contradiction of simple math or related to some other topic.   I think that may have you have a bit of a misunderstanding on what is being discussed when people talk about hp bloat in 5e where both sides stand there playing I hit you you hit me with a high hit rate till it finally ends.  Someone can prefer the result of each just as two people could point at a filet mignon & a rib eye cap then list all the reasons one is better than the other or why they would rather eat one over the other.  No matter how that meat preference falls one being six ounces and the other being 8 ounces is a matter of fact that will never change based on observer. It's fine if you dave or anyone else prefers the 5e method vrs the 3.5 method or vice versa,  but where 5e falls mathematically on the scale is a fact[spoiler="monsters"]rust monster cr3 27hp 18ac | 5e cr1/2  27 hp ac14.  That's  4AC less & 2.5cr drop differenceogre cr3 29hp ac16 | 5e | 5e  CR2 59hp 11ac.   5e has a 20 point bump in hp & drops the ac by 4.Ogre zombie cr3 55hp ac15 | 5e cr2 85 HP  ac8. 5e has another 30 point hp bump and drops the AC by seven this timetroll cr5 63hp 16ac | 5e cr5 84hp 15.  The 5e version has an extra 21 hp & a point lower ac.goblin cr1/3 5ho 15ac | 5e has cr1 21 hp ac15. That gives the 5e version an extra 6 hp bugbear cr 2 16ho 17ac | 5e has cr1 hp27 ac 16. That gives 5e an extra 9 hp with hp dropping by a point.hobgobin cr 1/2 6hp 15ac | 5e has cr1/2 11hp 18 ac. an extra 5 hit points & 3ac making it one of the very extreme few monsters like thatzombie cr1/2 16hp 11 ac | 5e has cr 1/4 22hp ac8. 22 is six points higher than 16 & 8 is four points lower than11human warrior skeleton cr1/3 6hp 15ac | 5e has cr 1/4 13hp 13ac.  13 is widely accepted as being more than 6 & less than 15. ghoul cr1 13hp 14ac  |5e has cr1 22hp 12 ac.   Again 22 is more than 13 while 12 is less than 14ghast cr3 29hp 17 ac | 5e has cr2 36hp 13 ac. that gives 5e a 19hp bump & 4 point ac drop provided we all agree to stick to the same <a href="https://www.thoughtco.com/definition-of-base-10-2312365" target="_blank">base10 </a>math that d&d uses.hill giant cr7 102hp 20ac | 5e has cr5 105hp 13 ac. The hit points re virtually identical but given the capabilities of a party fighting cr5 & cr7 creatures those numbers are rather different.. The 5e version has a 7 point drop in ac to ensure the lower level party can slog through rockemsockem robots.fire giant cr10 142hp 23ac | 5e has cr9 162hp 18acIn 5e the hp jump by 20 points & ac drops by 5.gelatinous cube cr3 54hp ac3 | 5e has cr 2 ac6 & 84hp.  The difference between ac3 &6 even at low levels is still pretty much a certain hit but a 30 point jump in hp is significant even at higher levels.trog cr1 13hp 15ac | 5e has cr1/2 13hp 11 ac giving it the same hp but a 4 point ac dropmummy cr5 55hp  20 ac |5e has cr3 58 hp & ac11.  an extra 3 hp & nine point ac drop for 5e.lich cr13 74hp 23ac  5e has cr21 135 hp & 17 ac. That gives 5e a sixty one point hp jump and reduces ac by six.beholder cr13 93hp 26ac | 5e has  cr13 180hp ac18.  5e has an eighty seven point jump in hp & 8 point drop in ac.displacer beast cr4 51hp 16ac | 5e has  cr3 85hp 13 ac.  Thats a 34hp bump and 3 point ac drop going to 5e.[/spoiler]Someone can prefer either style, but barring typos or human error with the calculator the math & raw numbers are simple facts.</blockquote>

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