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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Green Knight" data-source="post: 376380" data-attributes="member: 2723">Well, this is the Commoner skill list: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Jump, Listen, Profession, Ride, Spot, Swim, and Use Rope. No Diplomacy, Perform, or Wilderness Lore. Besides, why would they need Diplomacy, anyway? And maybe some Commoners would have Perform cross-class, but the average Commoner? I very much doubt the average Commoner is a thespian, too.  I disagree, though, that it's an unreasonable thing to assume, that they'd max out ranks in something like Craft or Profession. Hell, I think it's unreasonable to assume they WOULDN'T put max ranks into a skill like Profession or Craft. Their livelihood depends on how well they do their job, whatever that is. So why wouldn't they put 4 ranks into it? (They get 2 skill points per level, btw. 8 at first level) They've got very limited options for income, otherwise. Not like they go delving into dungeons searching for lost treasures, or anything. Those skills are pretty much the ONLY way they make any money. So why wouldn't they max it out?    If you're  a human, then you can take 2 feats. Skill Focus and something else. Besides, most of those feats are combat related. I hardly think the typical Commoner has Dodge (Prerequisite for that is Dex 13, and the average Commoner doesn't have a Dex 13), or Alertness (BTW: The Militia Feat from Forgotten Realms is only available in 4 regions, so even there it's hardly common. So I very much doubt that the typical Commoner even in the Realms has that Feat).    Again, their livelihood depends on their Profession. So of course, I disagree that Skill Focus would more likely be put towards any of the above over Skill Focus in Profession or Craft. For instance, Bluff. Why would the average Commoner need to be a practiced liar? Why would the average Commoner need to be able to negotiate peace treaties? Why does the average Commoner need to be a good musician? Not saying there aren't any. But I'm talking about the average guy. The rank and file Commoner. And when it comes to the average Commoner, they're most likely to use a Feat on something like Skill Focus (Profession/Craft) to improve their skills in their job which'll net them more money to feed and clothe their families with, rather than on something which won't have much of any impact on their lives (And the average Commoner doesn't need to have any talent in performance arts).    I'd say it does make even more difference, as you need to make as much money as you can, so that after the Feudal Lord takes out his chunk of change, you got enough left to feed your family (BTW: The Profession skill isn't restricted to farming. Here's the list from the skill description: Apothecary, Boater, Bookkeeper, Brewer, Cook, Driver, Farmer, Fisher, Guide, Herbalist, Herdsman, Innkeeper, Lumberjack, Miller, Miner, Porter, Rancher, Sailor, Scribe, Siege Engineer, Stablehand, Tanner, Teamster, Woodcutter, etc). And speaking as someone who grew up in a household where every penny counted, trust me. When you're poor, and you have the opportunity to scratch out a little bit of extra cash, you take it. Even if it's only a miniscule amount. And you don't waste time on non-essentials when you've got other priorities. When things got tight when I was little my parents didn't decide to spend less on food, or conserve electricity or water to save money. What got cut were my guitar lessons, as they were an unnecessary luxury.    Being respected around town or being good with the ladies doesn't put food on ones' table. Again, I'm not saying you WON'T find Commoners like that. Just that the majority wouldn't take stuff like that. And besides, in a town where everyone has Skill Focus (Swim), a particularly talented swimmer wouldn't really stick out all that much. Now put a guy with Skill Focus (Swim) in a town where the majority of the folk have Skill Focus (Profession) then he DOES stick out.    You get 8 skill points at 1st level. That leaves 4 skill points to put into whatever you like after you put 4 ranks into Craft/Profession. So I don't see why the average Commoner can't put 4 ranks into a Profession or Craft skill, when he's still got 4 skill points left over to stick into whatever else they like.    Here's a problem. Why's a Commoner wasting money on studded leather armor, large shield, or a morning star? Commoners aren't adventurers. The average Commoner won't be spending his money on weapons and armor (He gets one Simple Weapon Proficiency, so he'll probably buy one that's cheap, like the half-spear, or get the club which is free. But that's about it). He'll be spending it on getting a home of some sort. Buying the tools he needs to do his job. Supporting his wife and children, which may very well be many. Buying cattle or sheep rather than riding horses. Hell, he may even be saving up so that he can invest in a bigger business, later (Anyone ever read the book "The Good Earth"? Personally, I think the guy from that book, forget his name, would be a high-level Commoner in D&D terms).  Again, as I said, I'm talking about the generic Commoner. There're probably Commoners who do take skills like Diplomacy (Probably someone who's considered a village leader) or Perform. But the AVERAGE guy has no use for skills like that.  Note: My posts are strictly in the realm of D&D. I'm not talking about real-world economics, I'm not interested in talking about real-world economics. Just talking about what are the likelihoods in a D&D world.</blockquote>

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