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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rasyr" data-source="post: 2141695" data-attributes="member: 2855">Compared to D&D, all other games can be considered unpopular, using your standards.NOTE: D&D currently has more rules, and more conflicting/convoluted rules that RM ever had. I just think that this is worth pointing out... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />And who is responsible for rules bloat? It would be the guy who was the editor at the time, I'd say. For RM2, much of the rules bloat came through the many Companions (along with a good bit of power creep as well). So, who was the editor of those books? Well, it appears that for many of them, it was one of the d20 designers who worked for WOTC. Take that for what you will.... Your argument might hold more water if it weren't for the fact that this designer apparently (from things seen) tries to ignore the fact that he ever worked for ICE. With this being the case, it is no surprise that he "denies" it having any influence. You are taking their word for "gospel". You show skepticism for the comments of others, but apparently not for these idols of yours.If a person has worked or played a system extensively, then they are going to be influenced by it, no matter what they day. Being the person who designed HARP, I know this for a fact. I was influenced by RM, Harn, Hero, Arcanum, and even D&D while I was designing HARP. RM was the largest influence, mostly because of certain goals I was given for designing it, but it was by no means the only influence.You also referred to MERP and HARP as nothing more than RM-Lite, which is inaccurate. A Lite version of a game is where you take a game and strip things out. This was not the case with HARP (I have no idea about MERP, but from my understanding, it had a number of differences from RM as well). HARP was built from the ground up, based on the same concepts as RM, yes, but taken in different directions. That makes it a related system, not a Lite version of the other system. Your comment is akin to saying that d20 Modern is nothing more than D&D-Lite.....Except that in this thread, most of the people claiming influences from RM are not die-hard RM fans. Most of them are folks who have played RM a few times, if that. It seems to me that only person who is trying to ignore reality here is the person who came into this thread just to start an arguement.Plus there is the issue of you almost rabidly attacking anything that seems, to you, to impugn upon your idols. This cropped up back when Dancey was a scandal, and it is apparently cropping up again.  Gary Gygax & Dave Arneson say it isn't? Wow! I did not know that....  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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