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Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rasyr" data-source="post: 2142613" data-attributes="member: 2855">Cannot comment on the first part of this remark. I have never played MERP nor owned the book.Please note that I have never claimed that other systems may or may not have had influence. Tweet confirms that Ars Magica influenced HIS work on D&D3. True, except that many of the aspects of D&D3.x were not the same as those in previous editions. It is a given that AD&D was a huge influence, and nobody argues that, I think. However, it most certainly was not the only influence. That is the point of this thread, I think, to attempt to figure out what some of those other influences are. It is natural to think that those influences are systems that the designers have used or worked with in the past.hehehe.... Yes, knowing your usual attitude against non-d20 games (most especially from your time on rpg.net), I know that it is a BIG compliment.. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />No, I don't equate "lite" with "bad". However, I do find using the word "lite" as you are using it as inaccurate and misleading. Sorry, but I am going to be a stickler on this one. I have already stated my definition of what constitutes a "Lite" version of a game. HARP Lite (link in my sig) meets the definition I used. GURPS Lite meets the definition of a lite game as well, as they are both stripped down versions of a larger system. In fact, Basic D&D also meets the criteria I used for a Lite version of D&D. However, HARP does not meet that criteria (the criteria I gave) for your claims about it being a Lite version of RM. HARP is as much RM-Lite as d20 Modern is D&D-Lite. In both cases, you have two systems that come from the same core roots, but they go in different directions, and are games in their own rights. In both cases, neither meets the criteria I defined for a "lite" game. Neither is a stripped down version of a larger game, neither requires you to own the larger game in order to play it. (by this last bit, MERP falls out of the definition of a "lite" game as well).Saying that MERP and HARP are "related to" RM is more accurate in the way that you categorizing them. I have no arguments there, and do not deny that they are related, just as D&D and D20 Modern are related, are somewhat compatible, but different systems.ROFLMAO!!!! You are ascribing motives to me that are not true. First off, have you ever seen try to push such a connection as a method of getting folks to try HARP? IIRC, the most that I might have said is that D&D and HARP use similar mechanics, so the learning curve would not be great. I really doubt that I have EVER tried to get people to try HARP becuase D&D may or may not have been influenced by Rolemaster.Secondly, outside of threads like this, and these threads are nothing but pure speculation (remember that), about the only time I mention Rolemaster and D&D together is when I try to point out that D&D has far surpassed RM in complexity and the number of various optional rules.Third, please remember that I was not the one who brought HARP into this conversation. Looking back, it was Rel and Sablewyvern who first mentioned it. To which I made a replay, and then you came in and started ranting, which has really sidetracked the conversation, which is what I can only guess was your goal.Please note that I have not claimed such a connection. I have said that I think RM has influenced D&D, but I have not really said in what manner nor how directly.  Who knows, perhaps it was influenced by something else, which was influenced by something else, which was, in turn influenced by something else, which also had an influence on RM. That gives you two separate things, ultimately influenced by the same thing...Whether or not that influence is actually there is not really the point either. What is the point is that a number of folks are seeing that D&D now resembles RM (more specifically, RM2) in many ways. Does it really matter what prompted the changes, or where the influences actually came from? I don't think so. The end result is the same. There is a resemblance, whether you like it or not.You want to hear a funny story? A few years ago, I wrote an alternate spell system for D&D -- <a href="http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2002/apr/matrix.html" target="_blank">http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2002/apr/matrix.html</a> --, one that was heavily influenced by RM. It even included rules for overcasting. Not long after, out comes Arcana Unearthed, and guess what? I have people telling me what I wrote had some elements in common with the magic system in AU. Personally, I can see them sharing some elements. RM was a big influence on what I wrote, and I can presume it was an influence on what was in AU as well, since the authors of both systems are/were involved in RM at one point. Personally, I don't know as I have never looked at the AU system.</blockquote>

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