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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 5986306" data-attributes="member: 5100"><p>I don't think it's actually possible to balance the classes and options across the breadth of TTRPG play, even within the confines of the D&D genre (whatever that may be). </p><p></p><p>The more viable alternative is to have the options available sufficiently balanced to permit everyone to feel special.</p><p></p><p>Of course, the more choices a player can make about the build of his character, the more opportunity he has to hork it up. If you have a max-min player (i.e. maximizes his minimums in an attempt to avoid a weakness) who chooses a wizard, then spends a lot of feats on power attack, whirlwind attack, mobility, etc. they aren't going to be as good of a wizard as the one who spent feats on spell focus, spell mastery, etc. Even if you balance the melee feats against one another and the magic feats against one another, it's just never going to work out so that you could let players draw their feats from a hat and be balanced with one another. Even making a nod in that direction takes time away from actually making a more fun and playable game.</p><p></p><p>There is a level of intentional deviation from the norm that can create very fun, even potent, characters. But, it comes at a cost of having to really think about who your character is. I don't think that's a bad thing, though. One of my favorite characters was a strength-based rogue. A system should be friendly to players who actually come to the table with a concept and personality for their characters. (Note: "My mage is the chosen one and can level an entire town with <em>magic missile</em>" isn't a concept. It's a wet dream.)</p><p></p><p>That flexibility is a double-edged sword and one of the major reasons why I really, really, really hate that 5e looks to be throwing backgrounds, traits, and some other customization bits into the "feats" category. I'd much prefer to see them as class or race ability slots. I could still be surprised, and they could end up with some pretty restrictive feat prerequisites. </p><p></p><p>I'd actually be just fine with a "general" feat list and a "restricted" feat list. Everyone could choose from the general list, assuming other, miscellaneous prereqs were met. The restricted list would be completely off limits, unless something gave explicit access to it. That could be a class, a race, a background, a wish, or some other element of the game. The player could then opt to take it, or not. That would also keep expansion books from having to "errata" prior books, too. If every class/race just had a list of opened feats, that'd cover that. Each book could have a list of feats by core class, similar to how new spells are presented, with the full matrix available online. That's pretty darn modular, too.</p><p></p><p>That idea is enough of a tangent that it probably deserves its own thread. I'll do that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 5986306, member: 5100"] I don't think it's actually possible to balance the classes and options across the breadth of TTRPG play, even within the confines of the D&D genre (whatever that may be). The more viable alternative is to have the options available sufficiently balanced to permit everyone to feel special. Of course, the more choices a player can make about the build of his character, the more opportunity he has to hork it up. If you have a max-min player (i.e. maximizes his minimums in an attempt to avoid a weakness) who chooses a wizard, then spends a lot of feats on power attack, whirlwind attack, mobility, etc. they aren't going to be as good of a wizard as the one who spent feats on spell focus, spell mastery, etc. Even if you balance the melee feats against one another and the magic feats against one another, it's just never going to work out so that you could let players draw their feats from a hat and be balanced with one another. Even making a nod in that direction takes time away from actually making a more fun and playable game. There is a level of intentional deviation from the norm that can create very fun, even potent, characters. But, it comes at a cost of having to really think about who your character is. I don't think that's a bad thing, though. One of my favorite characters was a strength-based rogue. A system should be friendly to players who actually come to the table with a concept and personality for their characters. (Note: "My mage is the chosen one and can level an entire town with [i]magic missile[/i]" isn't a concept. It's a wet dream.) That flexibility is a double-edged sword and one of the major reasons why I really, really, really hate that 5e looks to be throwing backgrounds, traits, and some other customization bits into the "feats" category. I'd much prefer to see them as class or race ability slots. I could still be surprised, and they could end up with some pretty restrictive feat prerequisites. I'd actually be just fine with a "general" feat list and a "restricted" feat list. Everyone could choose from the general list, assuming other, miscellaneous prereqs were met. The restricted list would be completely off limits, unless something gave explicit access to it. That could be a class, a race, a background, a wish, or some other element of the game. The player could then opt to take it, or not. That would also keep expansion books from having to "errata" prior books, too. If every class/race just had a list of opened feats, that'd cover that. Each book could have a list of feats by core class, similar to how new spells are presented, with the full matrix available online. That's pretty darn modular, too. That idea is enough of a tangent that it probably deserves its own thread. I'll do that. [/QUOTE]
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