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<blockquote data-quote="Underman" data-source="post: 5986572" data-attributes="member: 6696705">Remember the context of post that you quoted me, I would have said the reverse:The &quot;simulation/immersion&quot; crowd are often trying to explain what they are doingThe &quot;4e crowd&quot; seem to be very inconsiderate or scornful of the sim/1st person/immersive agendaBut actually the more objective description would probably go like:The &quot;simulation/immersion&quot; crowd are often trying to explain what they are doingThe &quot;4e crowd&quot; are often trying to explain what they are doing(with some overstatement on both sides)Our respective biases (if they do exist as such) probably has something to do with the debates we pick.Right, so the sim crowd starts to ask for examples of how it works in play. Replies include: well, the fighter is too tired to kick, but still has arm strength to slash, and so forth. The sim crowd of course finds these explanations to be unsatisfactory, uncompelling, or implausible. Which then leads to:Some times it's not parsed, I think in many cases it IS parsed by still rejected. It's like telling your spouse a hundred times that cleaning isn't a priority for you, and he/she (who is a very cleanly person) parses it but just never gets it. And will never get it until he/she learns to agree to disagree.Or the &quot;blindspot&quot; of the 4e crowd to see validity in what the sim crowd is looking for <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But then, like any ad hoc explanation, those explanations fall into an argument about consistency and cohesion, and that's not a blind spot on anyone's part, I don't think, but part of the differences between what each playstyle prioritizes.&nbsp;Again, the post you quoted was in reference to certain contexts. &quot;Half-assed&quot; explanations wasn't a generalization towards ALL explanations for fortune-in-the-middle. Even in classic sim play, there are moments of half-assed explanations that everybody just glosses over in play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Underman, post: 5986572, member: 6696705"] Remember the context of post that you quoted me, I would have said the reverse: The "simulation/immersion" crowd are often trying to explain what they are doing The "4e crowd" seem to be very inconsiderate or scornful of the sim/1st person/immersive agenda But actually the more objective description would probably go like: The "simulation/immersion" crowd are often trying to explain what they are doing The "4e crowd" are often trying to explain what they are doing (with some overstatement on both sides) Our respective biases (if they do exist as such) probably has something to do with the debates we pick. Right, so the sim crowd starts to ask for examples of how it works in play. Replies include: well, the fighter is too tired to kick, but still has arm strength to slash, and so forth. The sim crowd of course finds these explanations to be unsatisfactory, uncompelling, or implausible. Which then leads to: Some times it's not parsed, I think in many cases it IS parsed by still rejected. It's like telling your spouse a hundred times that cleaning isn't a priority for you, and he/she (who is a very cleanly person) parses it but just never gets it. And will never get it until he/she learns to agree to disagree. Or the "blindspot" of the 4e crowd to see validity in what the sim crowd is looking for :) But then, like any ad hoc explanation, those explanations fall into an argument about consistency and cohesion, and that's not a blind spot on anyone's part, I don't think, but part of the differences between what each playstyle prioritizes. Again, the post you quoted was in reference to certain contexts. "Half-assed" explanations wasn't a generalization towards ALL explanations for fortune-in-the-middle. Even in classic sim play, there are moments of half-assed explanations that everybody just glosses over in play. [/QUOTE]

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