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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 5988857" data-attributes="member: 6698278">I really have never played with anyone in a campaign that griped about the fighter.  I know thats just my experience but thats what it is.  I think you might be shocked to discover that a lot of Pathfinder players feel this way.Yeah I DM 95% of the time.  I've played some.  I find no one DMs as well as me so I prefer to just do it myself <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />.  I think if I played I'd prefer a totally different game maybe even a different genre.  But I really don't have enough time to play in more than one campaign so DMing is the norm for me.Well that could be aid about any class.I've only ever had to recruit wizards and clerics.  Never a fighter.I think the 3e people are ready for a new game.  If Pathfinder was coming out with Pathfinder 2.0 I'd be really interested in what they were doing.  If they hired Monte as lead I'd be overjoyed.  You see it's been a lot longer since we got a new game.Probably sooner than you think.When I don't mind X and I actively dislike Y, it is not arbitrary.  But I realize for some people the only way for them to tell what was or wasn't was to get someone who did understand to point out the issues.  I think most stuff 4e people want could be done in a non-dissociative way.  I also think classes wouldn't have to be similarly structured to make 4e people happy.  4e people want a result.  4e gave them that result.  3e people felt the price was too high but most of them didn't hate the goal just the method.  So the key would be to achieve at least some of the goals in a different more palatable way.  Then 4e people and 3e people could be happier.We've hashed this a lot but I just don't see it in my games.  Things I disliked about 3e have nothing to do with this.  Fighters are great and every bit as fun as Wizards in my campaigns.  Wizards are more utilitarian but they by no means the kill leaders.</blockquote>

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