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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How much should 5e aim at balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6010257" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>You are missing a <em>lot</em> about Gygax and the design of D&D and AD&D.</p><p></p><p>The endgame started at levels 9-10. The <em>highest</em> level PC in Greyhawk was Sir Robilar at <em>14th </em>level. And one of the reasons the fighter is a weak class pre-Unearthed Arcana (where the fighter gets beefed up in a move Gygax has said explicitely was for balance purposes) is that Rob Kunz was too good at playing. With Weapon Spec, fighters are more powerful at levels 1-2. Wizards just about catch up at level 3 and pull slightly ahead at level 5. Level 7, the fighter gets an extra half an attack per round - they are monstrously stronger than at level 6. Level 9-10, the wizard is indisputably ahead <em>so they give the fighter an entire army to play with</em>. In short, for at least six levels of a ten level game there is pretty good balance - and the first two levels are almost a lottery.</p><p> </p><p>Another balance method for you. Big weapons do more damage to larger creatures. This has explicitely been called out as a buff to fighters by Gygax. And works as a buff to fighters at around levels 3-4 because that's when the enemies you fight become overwhelmingly large (in both meanings).</p><p> </p><p>A third balance method for you. Different XP for different classes. This is <em>purely</em> a balance factor.</p><p></p><p>Gygax came up with a very well balanced game that had <em>years</em> of playtesting before it was launched, and playtesting by the sort of people that would stress the balance as hard as possible (rather than by people trying to play 2e as in 3e's case). He regarded it as very important and a lot of the rules in D&D are there for balance purposes. If you play 1e and don't care about balance <em>that is because it was done for you by Gygax</em>. You are coasting based on his hard work - and IIRC you don't play either late 2e or 3e. Which means you've only ever played a fairly well balanced system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6010257, member: 87792"] You are missing a [I]lot[/I] about Gygax and the design of D&D and AD&D. The endgame started at levels 9-10. The [I]highest[/I] level PC in Greyhawk was Sir Robilar at [I]14th [/I]level. And one of the reasons the fighter is a weak class pre-Unearthed Arcana (where the fighter gets beefed up in a move Gygax has said explicitely was for balance purposes) is that Rob Kunz was too good at playing. With Weapon Spec, fighters are more powerful at levels 1-2. Wizards just about catch up at level 3 and pull slightly ahead at level 5. Level 7, the fighter gets an extra half an attack per round - they are monstrously stronger than at level 6. Level 9-10, the wizard is indisputably ahead [I]so they give the fighter an entire army to play with[/I]. In short, for at least six levels of a ten level game there is pretty good balance - and the first two levels are almost a lottery. Another balance method for you. Big weapons do more damage to larger creatures. This has explicitely been called out as a buff to fighters by Gygax. And works as a buff to fighters at around levels 3-4 because that's when the enemies you fight become overwhelmingly large (in both meanings). A third balance method for you. Different XP for different classes. This is [I]purely[/I] a balance factor. Gygax came up with a very well balanced game that had [I]years[/I] of playtesting before it was launched, and playtesting by the sort of people that would stress the balance as hard as possible (rather than by people trying to play 2e as in 3e's case). He regarded it as very important and a lot of the rules in D&D are there for balance purposes. If you play 1e and don't care about balance [I]that is because it was done for you by Gygax[/I]. You are coasting based on his hard work - and IIRC you don't play either late 2e or 3e. Which means you've only ever played a fairly well balanced system. [/QUOTE]
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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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